Oop's just bumped into a tree, I was speaking generally granny re cherry picking, there are arguments for staying and the same for leaving, one can be countered by the other, from my point of view the brexit's have not told us much, they just keep saying lets jump in and see if we can swim, so a bit of a gamble,if we leave and its a disaster those that are pushing for exit wont feel the same burden of the rest of us as they are well protected( rats and sinking ships)anyway I digress, I believe a certain Tory minister has heard about spankings on Wirral so might seek membership.
I hate how we shorten words in the uk like i.d.s or brexit or ridic or zio which is a person/zionist/ a stance on euro or the word ridiculous etc etc What id like is people who come who are criminals who commit worse ones in the uk & use law after havin a kid here walk free or do little time for murder etc facilitated by euro human rights. The black hole of £ that goes into europe stopped.billions.
The fact that were funding a failing system that we didnt join rightly years ago....the euro.
Going on what I've heard Jeremy Corbins reason for staying in the EU was mainly to protect workers rights, but what do we know could happen to them if the secretive negotiations on TTIP go through.Would like them to be fully transparent before the referendum. Who are our representatives negotiating and why is it all in secret. Can we trust some of those negotiating for our best interests not to do some deal that is not for us and later on find they have been rewarded with lucrative positions in the other camp. eg such as some of our politicians and civil servants Scores of ministers and officials are cashing in on their time in office by picking up lucrative jobs in the private sector.
Ive been looking at david noakes site eutruth dot org uk I watched him on yt His 50 reasons to leave list is v relevant Theres 120k regs that control us in the eu. Quangos ,dodgy ones like common purpose & bilderberg meetings. The fact that the queen with blair repealed the treason act in 98 to cover signing the uk 6 treaties over to the eu in 72. Against her coronation oaths. As i always say . Everythings corrupt 50 innocent shot dead and 1100 have died in police hands Very interesting info Have a look.....
The experts that were so furiously condemned by the leave campaigners were right. The country is in economic chaos and it's likely to get a lot worse. The EU appears uninclined to treat us generously, Westminster is in obvious meltdown, the country is split along age lines and geographical ones, Scotland is going to leave the UK and probably part of Northern Ireland will go too (or the 'troubles' will kick off again. Take your choice)
As a country we appear incapable of even starting the process of leaving. The promises about immigration are already being watered down, companies are stopping recruiting until they see which way things go, and increasingly there is a groundswell of people who feel they were misled by the leave campaign's lies and distortions and regret what they've done.
The financial services sector is already moving staff out of the city of London to places like Paris and Frankfurt, and this is the beginning of the end for the city of London as the EU's financial centre. This will damage our trade balance which is already negative, despite being shored up by the financial services business (As a country, we import every year more than we export, to the tune of several thousand pounds per Briton)
It appears we lack expertise in negotiators over trade deals (it's all been done by the EU on our behalf up to no) and are ill equipped to renegotiate trade deals with ANY countries, let alone the EU, so the future looks very bleak indeed.
There is little doubt that the EU will survive this, and go on to grow and prosper. It would appear that the UK is more likely to collapse like a pack of cards.
In ten or twenty years, things may improve somewhat, but in the immediate future, make no mistake. We are ALL going to have a very, very bad time of it!
This will damage our trade balance which is already negative, despite being shored up by the financial services business (As a country, we import every year more than we export, to the tune of several thousand pounds per Briton)
And that is where our Country has gone wrong, fixing this should have been the number one priority for many years. Europe has pushed/forced us into doing the opposite of what we need in order to weaken us. Europe limits our trading not enhances it.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
The financial services sector is already moving staff out of the city of London to places like Paris and Frankfurt, and this is the beginning of the end for the city of London as the EU's financial centre.
Please quote your source for this statement. The HSBC have stated that they MIGHT relocate staff to Paris. No other financial institution has said anything as far as I have heard.
There are a few interesting points never mentioned by the leave people. One is what happens to our Nuclear base in Scotland when Scotland leaves the UK? I hope it doesn't get moved to the Mersey, but the chances are that the financially crippled UK will no longer be able to afford to run it wherever it is.
The other bright spots are the fact that Mr Farage will be unemployed and UKIP will wither away, its only aim having been achieved.
I expect turkey to join the EU now, and quite quickly. and the UK trading freely with the EU will almost certainly involve acceptance of free travel with them. This will probably not involve many however. Given the immediate future i can't see many wanting to visit the place.
One other interesting point rarely if ever brought up by the leave camp is our birthrate. At the moment, we are nowhere near sustaining our population with a rate of 1.85 children per woman. In the EU it is even lower and the average is about 1.58. Germany is one of the lowest, which is why I suspect Mrs Merkel was so happy to see an influx of new Germans. In a few decades, we shall be scrambling to attract people here rather than keeping them out. There is little experience of managing a declining population. I will have a disastrous effect on the economy and dealing with it not a skill we possess, nor is there any economic theory as to how best do it.
We are experiencing a catastrophe in slow motion, but it IS a catastrophe.
One is what happens to our Nuclear base in Scotland when Scotland leaves the UK? I hope it doesn't get moved to the Mersey, but the chances are that the financially crippled UK will no longer be able to afford to run it wherever it is.
Scotland would take decades to develop its own security, it would probably be a simple exchange that we offer security services in exchange for the use of bases in Scotland.
England would be nowhere near as financially crippled as Scotland.
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The other bright spots are the fact that Mr Farage will be unemployed and UKIP will wither away, its only aim having been achieved.
Farage has mentioned this himself many times, there are very few politicians who can say they have 100% succeeded at their primary goal, he would become a Lord.
Originally Posted by Excoriator
I expect turkey to join the EU now, and quite quickly.
This is assuming that the EU still exists and that the other countries accept them. There is going to be a massive fight for EU money/grants will the EU want to take on another money pit?
Originally Posted by Excoriator
and quite quickly. and the UK trading freely with the EU will almost certainly involve acceptance of free travel with them.
Highly unlikely that we will sign up to the free movement of people, as I have stated a number of times the IOM has free trade without freedom of movement of people - there is a precedent. More than likely if the EU exists we will sign of to a near-free-trade agreement with minor tariffs here and there to appease certain people.
Originally Posted by Excoriator
One other interesting point rarely if ever brought up by the leave camp is our birthrate. At the moment, we are nowhere near sustaining our population with a rate of 1.85 children per woman. In the EU it is even lower and the average is about 1.58. Germany is one of the lowest, which is why I suspect Mrs Merkel was so happy to see an influx of new Germans.
A major problem for many parts of the developed world, it applies to remain or leave, with the Muslim birthrate being substantially higher we will become a Muslim country/continent if our birthrate doesn't rise, there is another option to downsize, we do not have to keep on growing, we have automation and equipment that reduces the need for people while increasing production.
Originally Posted by Excoriator
In a few decades, we shall be scrambling to attract people here rather than keeping them out. There is little experience of managing a declining population. I will have a disastrous effect on the economy and dealing with it not a skill we possess, nor is there any economic theory as to how best do it.
There are no shortage of people in this world that live in relative poverty and want their children to live in less poverty. Immigrants will always be available in the next few centuries.
It is about time that we stop the master/slave situation in this world, while there will always be a need to work, there is absolutely no reason that our lives need to be dominated by work. Most people are a slave to their lives, they are either working or bringing up children for the future, we have very little freedom. Because this has not been resolved the birthrate is dropping - it should be the working hours that are dropping.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
The financial services sector is already moving staff out of the city of London to places like Paris and Frankfurt, and this is the beginning of the end for the city of London as the EU's financial centre.
Please quote your source for this statement. The HSBC have stated that they MIGHT relocate staff to Paris. No other financial institution has said anything as far as I have heard.
HSBC said a couple of months back that they would not be moving out of London. So relocating some staff to Paris is probably in accordance with how they move people around anyway.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I don't think its a case so much of what we want, more like a case of, what we will be given, they are going to screw us to the floor, no doubt they have an eye on our economy, it will be like any business deal, get as much as you can for the least you can do.
One is what happens to our Nuclear base in Scotland when Scotland leaves the UK? I hope it doesn't get moved to the Mersey, but the chances are that the financially crippled UK will no longer be able to afford to run it wherever it is.
Scotland would take decades to develop its own security, it would probably be a simple exchange that we offer security services in exchange for the use of bases in Scotland.
England would be nowhere near as financially crippled as Scotland.
Well theres about 7000 jobs dependent on that sub base, and plans to increase /improve infrastructure to the tune of £500m are supposed to be starting in 2017 so the Scots would actually lose out a lot if they dont come to some agreement such as you suggested . The reason the subs are situated where they are in their underground sea bunkers, is that its the only place in the British Isles that has deep enough water to enable them to sneak in unseen - the idea being that our enemies are supposed not to know where the active ones are at any given time . (Id be surprised if they didnt know exactly where they are though) . There is always one out of commission being repaired somewhere on the Lake District coast. So - if Scotland did become independent from us I suppose they could use the fact theres no-where else , as a bargaining tool. Mind you , as said, the Scotties need protecting , so hopefully that benefit would outweigh any other advantage they think they have over us in respect of that base.
I did half hear something being discussed about the possibility of the Govt just 'claiming' the promontory where the subs are in Fastlane , but Im not quite sure what was meant/how that could work
Its not much of a secret when the subs arrive or leave Faslane any longer, they don't even bother to try and hide, they go "missing" some distance away.
There is bound to be a back-up base, possibly shared with the USA.
Trident is owned and maintained by the USA, we lease it and only provide our own war heads.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
