WikiWirral Wirral's Biggest Online Forum
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,429
Posts1,033,741
Members14,772
Most Online30,276
Jan 9th, 2025
Who's Online Now
3 members (2 invisible), 23,299 guests, and 781 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,803
_Ste_ 16,347
Newest Members
Gina0151, PaulKennedy, SaxonShore, JenniferWarm, allthingstold
14,772 Registered Users
New General Forums
New Wirral History
Eleanor Road Bidston (Bishops House)
by RobThomas - 18th Nov 2024 7:45am
A Postcard from New Brighton
by Norton - 18th Apr 2012 3:21pm
St Andrews church
by TRANCENTRAL - 6th Oct 2011 11:02pm
Shop in Grange road
by carma - 16th Jul 2010 11:03pm
416 Glegg Arms Gayton
by uptoncx - 30th Dec 2008 6:49pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 3
kevin 2
Topic Replies
Wirral Bins Cancelled this week
by diggingdeeper - 10th Jan 2025 3:01pm
New buildings
by sneakypete - 10th Jan 2025 9:34am
Old Car Photo
by diggingdeeper - 10th Jan 2025 3:20am
St Andrews church
by bert1 - 9th Jan 2025 7:36pm
Merseyrail Deep Weather
by diggingdeeper - 9th Jan 2025 5:15pm
Shop in Grange road
by garymv - 8th Jan 2025 4:16pm
hardcore GULCH xx
by diggingdeeper - 30th Dec 2024 10:07am
60's mechanic wanted
by TheComputerLab - 29th Dec 2024 1:32am
A Postcard from New Brighton
by JunxinH - 26th Dec 2024 6:05am
January
M T W T F S S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
Mark 4
casper 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 440
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 440
If we could get hold of some FBI mosquito bots that carry tiny cameras we could seek out these places with no chance of getting caught. :-)

Google Ads
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,924
Forum Addict
Offline
Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,924
think raftl

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 59
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by NEWBOY


There is also an underground stream that runs under the road, perhaps this has something to do with it?

Does anybody know anythign about it?


The stream I know a little about.I lived at 149 Woodchurch Rd(At it's junction with Highgreen Rd) for a little while,before I moved there in 2004,the cellar of the house used to flood,the fire brigade were there quite often pumping it out due to an underground stream,it seems the house has now been "Tanked"and is less likely to flood??If you stand outside this house and look around,you would notice it was in the middle of a Y or T shaped valley Woodchurch Rd being the top bars and Highgreen Rd being the Horizontal bar(best way I can think of describing it at this ungodly[drunken]hour).Which then runs into Borough Rd,which I believe was a big stream/tributary for the Mersey in the bottom of a valley again,stands to reason I suppose.So a Goverment paid for railway would make a little sense as they would follow the lie of the land I suppose????????????

Chris wink

BTW I now live on the opposite side of that valley of Borough rd which is also quite damp whistle

Last edited by oggie; 30th Dec 2008 1:14am.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Here's some info I have been trying to dig up ...

An iron track marker was unearthed in Aspendale Road, Tranmere, in the summer of 2006, by Mike Dennis the Site Manager, FAWLEY CONSTRUCTION, and his team. The embossed letters, N.W. & L. Ry. referred to the North Wales and Liverpool Railway. The letters column of the Birkenhead News at that time, revealed that a line was proposed from Birkenhead Central Station, via a tunnel, to the rears of Aspendale Road, Derby Road and Victoria Road. The line was to have continued to the other side of Borough Road, by the now demolished College, to Woodchurch Road, and on to the existing Wirral line at Woodchurch.

The lay-out of Aspendale Road and Maybank Road was such as to allow room for the railway line, and this was pointed out in a letter to the Birkenhead News, which also reported that a similar track marker to the one in Aspendale Road had been found around Holm Lane (Prenton - Oxton). Possibly, the engineers had been considering the constructing of another tunnel, under Oxton hill, to Borough Road.



The following link also discusses this issue and links the above together.

http://forums.travel.com/uk-railway-forum/463922-birkenhead-central-tunnel.html

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,644
Keep It Real !!
Wiki Guide
Offline
Keep It Real !!
Wiki Guide
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,644
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Here's some info I have been trying to dig up ...

An iron track marker was unearthed in Aspendale Road, Tranmere, in the summer of 2006, by Mike Dennis the Site Manager, FAWLEY CONSTRUCTION, and his team. The embossed letters, N.W. & L. Ry. referred to the North Wales and Liverpool Railway. The letters column of the Birkenhead News at that time, revealed that a line was proposed from Birkenhead Central Station, via a tunnel, to the rears of Aspendale Road, Derby Road and Victoria Road. The line was to have continued to the other side of Borough Road, by the now demolished College, to Woodchurch Road, and on to the existing Wirral line at Woodchurch.

The lay-out of Aspendale Road and Maybank Road was such as to allow room for the railway line, and this was pointed out in a letter to the Birkenhead News, which also reported that a similar track marker to the one in Aspendale Road had been found around Holm Lane (Prenton - Oxton). Possibly, the engineers had been considering the constructing of another tunnel, under Oxton hill, to Borough Road.



The following link also discusses this issue and links the above together.

http://forums.travel.com/uk-railway-forum/463922-birkenhead-central-tunnel.html


Very interesting stuff


[Linked Image from ]





Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
This map from 1875 seems to have been used as the basis for some mark-ups, one of which may have been to show the land to be purchased for the construction of the line. The dotted lines seem to coincide with the description of the route in relation to Aspendale & Maybank roads (although they aren't shown on this map). Don't know why there should be a gap between the 2 sections though.
If I'm right, the tunnel from Central station would have ended near the top of Victoria Rd. & then there would have been a cutting from there to Borough Rd., which is 50 Ft. lower than the tunnel exit.

Or maybe it's just coincidence. think

(Actually, it's the line now occupied by Victoria Fields).

Attached Images
track route.jpg (547.8 KB, 682 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Something that is really weird on that map is the accuracy of most of the lines, then 488 - tranmere water works looks like a random shape but this is the correct shape for 488 according to the tithe maps. As many other boundaries are marked that would not be affected by the line, it looks unlikely that the purpose of the annotations are related to to the trains.

I am wondering if it is land that was already owned by the council or perhaps one individual????


We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 292
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 292
So what exactly do those funny little squiggles mean top and bottom of the marked areas. It looks from the Tithe Map of 1836-1851 that that piece(s)of land was owned by one John Carter. In fact he owned most of the land from Victoria Rd to Harrowby Rd and Borough Rd to Derby Rd. Not sure about the Water Works shape according to the the 1875 Tithe Map it is similar to a trapezium?? Not good with geometry.

P
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
P
I think they the squiggles are Area Braces. In this case they are half braces. I'm assuming that they indicate that the land on one side (which will have the parcel no. and acreage shown) includes the now (because of the proposed railway etc.) isolated chunk of the parcel.

Just putting 2 + 2 together here. I maybe wrong.


Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Those squiggles are called 'braces'. They show where 2 parcels of land are included in the same reference number & area. In this case, because they are in 2 parts, not joined, it means that the space between is not included in that parcel; if it was included, the braces would be joined & would look like an elongated letter S.
On that particular map, there's been a lot of combining & re-numbering of parcels, shown by the larger, handwritten numbers. The original parcel numbers are the smaller, printed ones & under the parcel number is the area in acres.

Ha, Pinz beat me to it.

Last edited by chriskay; 15th Mar 2009 10:08am.

Carpe diem.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
On this 1938 map, is the curved markings above woodchurch rd another part of the planned line, it is not a tithe boundary.

Attached Images
MapWoodchurchRdRail1938.jpg (190.49 KB, 632 downloads)

We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn

https://ddue.uk
P
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
Pinzgauer
Unregistered
P
You could well be right dd. Never noticed those lines before. They have the same "feel" to them as the others further into town. Well spotted !

It would have gone slap through the Birkenhead Brickworks Company. Is the southernmost boundary line curving away to allow possible sidings at the brickworks ?? The brickworks would have been at peak operation then, with the housing expansion in most areas. Getting bricks out by rail may have been a good option at that time.

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Mmmmm yes, interesting. That map doesn't have the look of an O.S. map; too coarse. Is it O.S., DD?


Carpe diem.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Wiki Master
Offline
Wiki Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 14,448
Likes: 27
Yes, I am pretty sure you have a copy of this one as well.

1938 05SJ38NW

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Forum Veteran
Offline
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,868
Yes, I do have that one (although I've re-named them all, so the numbering has gone). I just thought that it didn't have the usual fineness of line of the OS. Here's another extract from the same map, showing that when they built Maybank & Aspendale roads, they didn't build on what we are assuming was the proposed line.

Attached Images
Maybank.jpg (434.65 KB, 594 downloads)

Carpe diem.
Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Wirral Bins Cancelled this week
by diggingdeeper - 10th Jan 2025 3:01pm
Merseyrail Deep Weather
by diggingdeeper - 9th Jan 2025 5:15pm
hardcore GULCH xx
by GaryFromWirral - 29th Dec 2024 11:14pm
Rising tides
by Excoriator - 21st Dec 2024 1:20pm
Lucy Letby
by diggingdeeper - 16th Dec 2024 6:16pm
For Sale & Free
Member Spotlight
KevinFinity
KevinFinity
Wirral
Posts: 2,357
Joined: April 2009
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Rising tides
by Excoriator - 21st Dec 2024 1:20pm
New buildings
by Excoriator - 19th Aug 2024 5:03pm
News : New Topics
Wirral Bins Cancelled this week
by diggingdeeper - 10th Jan 2025 3:01pm
Merseyrail Deep Weather
by diggingdeeper - 9th Jan 2025 5:15pm
Lucy Letby
by diggingdeeper - 16th Dec 2024 6:16pm
New Enthusiast Forums
hardcore GULCH xx
by GaryFromWirral - 29th Dec 2024 11:14pm
60's mechanic wanted
by robin47 - 3rd Dec 2024 9:32pm
Old Car Photo
by petzl - 5th Mar 2015 9:30pm
Popular Topics(Views)
10,011,659 CW Chat room thread
5,395,753 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,274,910 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5