Just noticed the map, it is where I thought. Shame its cut off by the ship canal, if it had been the boat canal id have been able to get to it (sisters husbands family bring their boat up here every summer).
Probably best someone from stanlow oil "refinery" is it a refinery? Anyway... otherwise its stowaway on one of those big boats on the channel me thinks. He he!
Rhea think's the only way across is by going all the way out towards Runcorn and getting over the other side by the Runcorn Bridge. Which is a mission, especially if you have to walk back.
We will go and have a look sometime to check it all out.
Has anyone checked this land out on live maps? Its bizarre.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=53.289081~-2.859771&style=h&lvl=18&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29169785&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&where1=stanlow&encType=1 This is Aerial.
Does anyone else get a random square of land that doesn't fit, over the area where the abbey is supposed to be? There appear to be houses or some structure in Aerial photo but nothing from any angle in Birds Eye.
Found the following: Amongst the buried features is part of the main drain leading to the River Gowy, surviving as a tunnel lined with 4 courses of sandstone blocks. http://www.pastscape.org.uk/hob.aspx?hob_id=69550
Thats mad when i used to travel up to Eastham Ferry on my bike i would ride down the Queen dock i got told off cause it was private but the locks where always closed when no ships where entering the canal i dont know how security tight it is but im sure if people like walking they could sneak onto the point where the locks are and cross to it cause i know there closed when no ships pass.. Weather or not it happens know i dunno but ive always been intrested in that part and love to go and have an explore but i think it is private land but why is it so cut off lol.. But know theres an abbey there id deffo love to go see it lol..
I have the same pictures as those (at the beginning of the thread) but mine are slighly better quality black and white and dated 1965 - but no guarantees, I will try and find where I sourced them.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
There is quite a lot about Stanlow (or Stanlaw) Abbey in Henry Youngs Book 'A Perambulation of the Hundred of Wirral', this was published in 1909 and contains those pictures.
At the risk of boring people, I've reproduced below all of the information from that book:
"In a little under a mile the busy little port of Ellesmere is reached, with its huge elevator, corn mills, and other manufactories, and passing quickly through the town by Bridge Street to Pontoon, a boat will be found waiting (if the precaution has been taken to send a postÂcard a few days in advance to Thomas Ryder, Stanlaw Point,! near Ellesmere Port) for Stanlaw Point, on which is situated the ruins of the ancient abbey, is now an island, cut off from the mainland by the Manchester Ship Canal, which has to be crossed. No boats are kept at Ellesmere for the purpose, and the writer of these lines, on his first visit, had to steal a boat which some sailors had left at Pontoon whilst they made purchases in the town, and bribed two stalwart youths to enter the conspiracy with him. Luckily, the boat was safely moored again before the sailors returned.
Landing on the island, the farm and ruins of the abbey are in front, and the prospect is a pleasing one, showing how greatly for the better the hand of man has changed the scene since Ormerod saw it and described it. "It is," he says, "difficult to select a scene of more comfortÂless desolation than this cheerless marsh barely fenced from the waters by embankments on the north, shut out by naked knolls from the fair country which spreads along the feet of the forest hills on the south-east, and approached by one miserable trackway of mud, whilst every road that leads to the haunts of men seems to diverge its course as it approaches Stanlaw." Nothing like this scene will be noticed now, for though the Point itself is bleak and dreary enough, on nearly every side the prospect is a pleasing one; the great fens and marshes in the neighbourhood of Ince, at one time stretching for many weary miles, have been drained, are well farmed, and dotted with prosperous-looking homesteads, whilst in the foreground is Ince Hall. The Mersey here takes a wide sweep to the south-west, so that at high tide the river Gowy seems to fall into a beautiful lake, and the view over to the prettily wooded shores on the Lancashire side at Speke and Hale forms a pleasing prospect; to the north-west is the Mount Manistay, happily now nearly all green with vegetation. When the tide is out the mud flats are tenanted by numerous sheldrakes-or, as the Wirral people call them, burrow-ducks, on account of their nesting in the rabbit burrows-whilst wild geese and other water-fowl are scattered over the mud flats, and in the winter the place is visited by numerous swans. There is a small rabbit-warren on the island, and numerous well-bred goats pick up a hard living.
The rock on which the abbey was situated is of red sandstone, and the position is a bleak one Âblown on by every wind of heaven; and before the surrounding country was fenced and drained it is impossible to imagine a more uninviting situaÂtion, for the rocky knoll was surrounded on three sides by great gloomy marshes and sour bad lands, over which the traveller must have trod a precarious path, with many a will-o'-the-wisp to dog and betray his footsteps, for the marsh was obscured by tall reeds, valuable for thatching; and the founder of the abbey in the charter directed that the reeds were not to be gathered without the express permission of the convent.
It was on this bleak spot, where the river Gowy fell into the Mersey after dragging itself slowly and painfully through the dreary marshes, that John de Lacy, Constable of Chester, founded this abbey of Cistercian monks in the year 1178, shortly before he set out for a crusade in the Holy Land, never, alas! to return. The CisterÂcian monks were a very austere order, choosing lonely situations, difficult of access, and far away from the busy haunts of men. Their peculiar system was the work of Stephen Harding, an Englishman, and although the first abbey was founded by William Gifford, bishop of WinÂchester, at Waverley, A.D. 1129, yet so much did the monks commend themselves to the people of England that rich endowments flowed in upon them, so that their establishments in England in the reign of Henry VII 1. numbered seventyÂfive. They were great agriculturists and proÂmoters of Gothic architecture, numbering among their beautiful buildings such noble monuments to their skill as the Abbeys of Woburn, Tintern, Furness, and Fountains.
So here the good Cistercians dwelt, toiling for the good of men's souls, and endeavouring to leave the world a little better than they found it. Their isolation was complete, and the busy strife of those noisy days of turmoil and war passed by them unheard and unheeded; but the situation was an ill-chosen one, for the place was liable to floods when the Gowy came tumbling down in fury, and the Mersey rose before the gathering storms. A great eruption of the sea in 1279 is stated by the Annals of St. Werburgh to have done immense damage at Stanlaw; and alas! troubles come not singly but in battalions, for a belching gale damaged the great and beautiÂful tower of their church, so that it fell, carrying with it part of the surrounding masonry, and almost ruining the abbey as a place of abode. Yet the monks clung tenaciously to the hallowed spot, to which came pious pilgrims, for it held the bones of the illustrious dead, the great Earls of Lincoln and the Constables of Chester lying buried therein in a vault cut out of the solid rock.
In another two years the surrounding marshes were lighted by a great fire, for what remained of the abbey was ablaze, and the place was reduced in a great conflagration. Still the monks clung to the little that remained of their beautiÂful building; but ere long another inundation occurred, and the inmates were in a piteous plight, for the water rose three feet high in the offices of the monastery, so that at last the monks of Stanlaw requested leave of Pope Nicholas IV. to migrate to Whalley, where they had reÂceived rich grants of land from the De Lacys, and at last their request was granted on their increasing their number by twenty.
"Considerable difficulty," Mortimer says, " attended their removal, which was opposed by parties who pleaded a prior grant of Whalley, and were only induced to relinquish their claim upon the promise of several large sums of money. Even their own patron opposed their movements. He resumed possession of the church he had given them, and retained it until they assigned to him their chapel at Clitheroe, then valued at one hundred marks. At length, in 1294, the separation finally took place. Five of the monks remained at Stanlaw, one at the Grange of Stanney, and one was transferred to finish his studies at Oxford, where he attained a doctor's degree. The twenty-five that removed to Whalley obtained entrance into the church, 'having read their forced revocation before the doors, the people in crowds invoking the judgements of Heaven upon the simoniacs,' by whom they had been so long excluded."
Robert Hauworthe, who had been Abbot for twenty-four years, and had learned to look with affectionate eyes on the great marsh lands, with its reed gatherers, decided to remain at Stanlaw with four of his monks, much to the relief of the dwellers on the country-side, for the removal of the monks to Whalley was bitterly felt, and great efforts were made to rekindle the enÂthusiasm of the people for the abbey, an indulÂgence of forty days being given to all who aided it by contributions, and another of a less number of days, "to all who should either go to Stanlaw to pray for the souls of the Earls of Lincoln, and the Constables of Chester there buried." Its distresses even excited commiÂseration on the Continent. The Archbishop of Montroyal and the Bishop of Versailles granted similar indulgences to all who would undertake a pilgrimage to pray for the soul of Edmond De Lacy. So the monks remained faithful to their beÂloved Stanlaw, which became a cell under Whalley until the dissolution, when it passed into the possession of that great trafficker in lands, Sir Richard Cotton, and was sold by him to Sir John Poole of Poole Hall.
But little of the former splendour of Stanlaw Abbey remains; scattered about are various stones, which have been carefully carved, and four beautiful old circular columns now support the roof of a cow-house. One of the walls, in which is an ancient doorway, is still standing, and in the centre of the farm-yard is a subterÂranean passage, hewn out of the solid red sandÂstone, passing under the buildings and emerging over 45 yards, close to where the Gowy falls into the Mersey. Another passage, which, however, the present writer did not succeed in finding, is said by Ormerod to have led to a small cirÂcular apartment, hewn also out of the solid rock, which was not discovered until a furious storm burst in upon it, and laid bare the chamber containing numerous bones and several leaden coffins. At the present day bones are still found when gardening operations are in proÂgress, showing that Stanlaw was a favourite place of burial, and that a considerable God's acre was attached to the abbey.
From what remains, the style of architecture is judged to be extremely fine Early English, and although of no great size, the building must have been a very beautiful specimen of the architecture of that period.
The present farm-buildings, in which are in-corporated portions of the abbey, were erected about 1750, and are now fast falling into decay, for the house is occupied by a fisherman and a wild-fowler, to whom the great out-buildings are useless.
As we move quietly away to the boat, to be rowed across the ship canal, the buried past, in which we have been dwelling, and in fancy almost hearing the great bell in the tower calling the faithful to evensong from across the marshes, is on a sudden forgotten, as a steamer hurries swiftly along the ship canal on its voyage through Eastern Wirral to the great ocean beyond, and spells for us the great change that has occurred in our habits, thoughts, and life, since the good Cistercian monks held sway at Stanlaw."
Hey, i used to do work on there, was called Shell Island by the workers! Got its own customs house and offices, derelict now but still complete! The island is full of rabbits, no natural predators, and the ONLY access is thru shell itself! They have a "ferry boat" that runs back and forth 24/7, very high security tho people, maybe thats why not much known about it! If i had known then, i would be in there, once you are on the island, no-one there so you can wander! But as i never knew, i didnt (SORRY!!!!)
That's the best I can get from above. Don't forget if you click the two left-facing arrows on the blue line you get a bigger screen, then F11 will give you a giant screenshot! Handy tips courtesy of moi lol.
that is known as shell island, the chances of gettin on it are slim. stanlow has its own police, because of what is done there every thing is strict as. you'd prob have to be a member of the sas to get there and back un noticed
English Heritage and the Local Planning Authority are seeking access to the monument.
Hmmmm, interesting, nice of Shell to leave it to ruin and seemingly not allow the appropriate authorities visit and hopefully conserve whats left of this ageing structure...
Not much left of it as it is, from the sounds of things.
I know a few people in a few high places in shell, done work on Shell Island loads of times! Gonna wait til the right moment and see if they can materialize a "job" over there in the new year!! They are VERY strict tho about cameras onsite, of caught your fooked!! I can only ask and see!
Your meant to keep fones in the van, and not on you! Most turn a blind eye as long as you dont answer it in the open, hide in the van or behind a building etc! Problem is the same tho mate, caught using a camera fone and your just as bolloxed!! I do have some good contacts in there on the managerial side so can only ask the question!
Hey all, first post on here after much lurking! managed to gain access to stanlow point over the weekend, unfortunately i did not have a camera at the time as it was a spur of the moment visit! A return is planned in the near future so hopefully i will have some photos of this rather unique piece of land to share with the forum!
Better idea,ask English Heritage it's a monument,then ask Shell's permission,the security will ask you to put your camera and or phone in a locker,the whole area is classed as a bonded site.
my mate and i didnt actually get the chance to see the remains of the abbey on this occasion. we landed on the island by boat and as the tide was already on the way out when we arrived we only had an hour or so to explore the place for fear of running aground on the way back down river. I dont know if shell would object to us being on the point, we were careful to stay well away from active areas used by shell/MSC and im not even sure whether they were aware of us being there. We half expected to be accosted and told to clear off from the minute we turned up, but this didnt happen so we are hoping to go back some time in the near future and hopefully find the remains of the abbey. Id be very interested to hear from anybody who used to work on the island, we noticed that a lot of the buildings on there are derelict and the whole place seems to be in a bit of a timewarp.
my mate and i didnt actually get the chance to see the remains of the abbey on this occasion. we landed on the island by boat and as the tide was already on the way out when we arrived we only had an hour or so to explore the place for fear of running aground on the way back down river. I dont know if shell would object to us being on the point, we were careful to stay well away from active areas used by shell/MSC and im not even sure whether they were aware of us being there. We half expected to be accosted and told to clear off from the minute we turned up, but this didnt happen so we are hoping to go back some time in the near future and hopefully find the remains of the abbey. Id be very interested to hear from anybody who used to work on the island, we noticed that a lot of the buildings on there are derelict and the whole place seems to be in a bit of a timewarp.
tell me more mate! also welcome to wiki
Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality
thanks transcentral! havent been back yet but planning a return the tides are reasonably big so as to allow us to spend a decent length of time on there. there are quite a number of derelict workshops, messrooms etc on there, from what paperwork we found it seems that most of them have been abandoned since the early nineties. the large building marked as a club on the map above seems to have been offices of some sort, but what was obviously somebodies house adjoins it and still has the bathroom etc intact! being so difficult to get to means that the place has not been damaged by vandals and thieves in the usual way, so most of the rooms are exactly as they were left when the last occupants would have closed the door. anyway, il hopefully have some photos after the next visit so il keep you posted.
thanks transcentral! havent been back yet but planning a return the tides are reasonably big so as to allow us to spend a decent length of time on there. there are quite a number of derelict workshops, messrooms etc on there, from what paperwork we found it seems that most of them have been abandoned since the early nineties. the large building marked as a club on the map above seems to have been offices of some sort, but what was obviously somebodies house adjoins it and still has the bathroom etc intact! being so difficult to get to means that the place has not been damaged by vandals and thieves in the usual way, so most of the rooms are exactly as they were left when the last occupants would have closed the door. anyway, il hopefully have some photos after the next visit so il keep you posted.
Thanks for the info mate give us a nod when your going back bud!
Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality
Hi all, just to let you know that we attempted to return to the island this afternoon on a mates boat, but after running aground on mudbanks several times in the entrance of the river gowy we decided to give it a miss rather than risk being stranded on a falling tide. this would mean a very lengthy walk followed by a surefire bollocking for crossing the locks at eastham to regain civillisation! has anybody else tried to access the island recently? im starting to think kayaks could be the answer, as they float in only a few inches of water and could be carried over the mud at a pinch.
Thought you all might be interested to know that English Heritage are planning on surveying this site and undertaking some more research on the area over the next few years. Good news.
I worked for Shell in Gas Safety on Shell Island in the early Seventies.We were checking the safety of workers repairing pipelines in two tunnels that ran under the canal from the berths on the island into the refinery.If I remember rightly, one pipeline (on the Mersey side of the canal) also ran in the other direction from the island right up to Eastham Locks. I wasn't aware at the time of the Abbey being there so didn't see anything of it.As was said on earlier posts, access to the island was by a small Ship Canal ferry boat that ran from the refinery near the Corridor Road. There were customs/police houses on the island and families were living there at the time.
I have worked on shell twice too. As its a bonded site, that island is classed as outside the uk as far as I know, hence the customs being based there. I remember a ship full of people being stuck there for a few days around 5 years ago due to the fact customs would not let them in to the UK. In the end uk police were allowed onto site and they were all transported somewhere under guard. Anyone caught there could end up in serious trouble as the whole site is bonded, its the same as breaking into an airport or customs holding site.
I have worked on shell twice too. As its a bonded site, that island is classed as outside the uk as far as I know, hence the customs being based there. I remember a ship full of people being stuck there for a few days around 5 years ago due to the fact customs would not let them in to the UK. In the end uk police were allowed onto site and they were all transported somewhere under guard. Anyone caught there could end up in serious trouble as the whole site is bonded, its the same as breaking into an airport or customs holding site.
Good! Should discourage metal detectors and the like! It's a special site this, it's significance has gone hidden for a while. Hopefully the next few years will change this.
Good! Should discourage metal detectors and the like! It's a special site this, it's significance has gone hidden for a while. Hopefully the next few years will change this.
Conversely, the professionals should pull their fingers out and get sites like this surveyed before nature, industry and vandals wreck the places.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
When you consider the number of Universities running courses and the number of theses produced. You'd think they'd be short of new sites to do. Not really having a pop - just frustrated at the speed things happen at.
How's life anyway, you were run off your feet last year.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
the trouble is, getting a degree in archaeology doesn't necessarily mean you have the skills to survey a site. I know what you mean though, I am waiting for a particular excavation report from a site dug in the 1980s!
My god, that's bad, is this a genuine delay or are people holding back information so that they can do other research before others using the information that's been gleaned?
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
no, it's just a massively time-consuming job. If you excavate a site, then you usually get separate reports from pottery experts, finds specialists, osteo data, etc. Then you have to wait for carbon dating, pollen analysis and the like. A site report could also stop if something more pressing comes along, and it can very quickly end up delayed for years.
Budgets are dire, so unfortunately it's a case of doing it as and when.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Back in the mid seventies I went out with a girl that lived on Stanlow Island her dad was the harbourmaster and there were four houses for staff. I used to drive down through the refinery and the ferryman would take me over. No real security back then I guess I had no idea of the history/abbey etc.
I'm wondering if "Dee" was the lass I went out with her surname was Thompson...
Good! Should discourage metal detectors and the like! It's a special site this, it's significance has gone hidden for a while. Hopefully the next few years will change this. [/quote]
I feel this is an unfair comment. Not all metal detectorists should be tarnished with the same brush. The majority are honest, and help archaeologists a lot! If it wasn't for detectorists a lot of artefacts would remain unfound. Is it better to leave things to rot or deteriorate unfound? Or to be found and shared with the world in museums?
The only access to Stanlow is either with the farmer who's sheep and cows graze Ince & Frodsham marshes. The wildfowlets who shoot on the same land as the farmer uses. The other access is through the refinary. Here you will need to get past the barriers on oil sites road to get to the offices. Then you will need a pass to get you through the gates to the ferry. You will also need a pass to board the ferry. Once over the canal the ferryman unlocks the gate to the island then locks it behind you. From the river Gowy to Eastham locks this land is leased to the RSPB and there is no public access at all. Besides the farmer and shooters the only other people allowed access are bird counters who count the birds on the Marsh once a month.
I know a few adventures that descended onto the island for a major explore (don't think they used any of the ways above) they did get onto the island and back (avoiding security) sadly they couldn't post pics up as they got a visit from the men in black ! (After clocking a number plate) 😮
Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality
A bit different from days gone by when I used to repair the television for Sgt. Roper who lived on the island. I just drove down Oil Sites Road, through the refinery & on to the ferry without being stopped & was then loaned a wheelbarrow to take my toolbox along the track to his cottage!
I'd love to go. I tried to organise two visits with the PR departments of Stanlow / Essar, but neither would entertain it, even for an educational visit.
This little gem has been written in a notebook and hidden away for a long time. I cannot remember where I originally copied it from, but thought it nice to share, before it's lost or thrown in a skip. There has been an concerted effort to put the punctuation as it was translated, not typo mistakes, so this is the copy.
It must be very old. Hope you like it.
Headed:
Poem written by an unknown Stanlaw monk. Translated from Latin by Rev.F.G.Slater of Ince.
STANLAW
"Stanlaw ! where I hope to lie when my hour shall come to die, Hard thy lot and brief thy fame Still thou teachest by thy name - STAN and LAW together blending Name all neighbour names transcending LAW is Hill - I lift my eyes To the hills beyond the skies. STAN is Stone - O! Corner Stone ! What art thou but Christ alone ? Alter Stone, on thee there lies That blest Bread of Sacrifice Stanlaw ! 'tis the Lord above Gave thy name to tell his love '
Stanlaw Abbey founded 1178 by John de Lacy Monks transferred to Whalley Abbey, Lancs in 1296.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Here are a few photo's taken on Stanlow Island around 1999/2000. Pictures show the ferry, ships berthed on the island and some stonework.
I don't know whether the walls are original from the abbey or the stonework had been re-worked by the Manchester Ship Canal Police staff who used to live in the houses which backed onto the area photographed. Judging by other illustrations and photo's posted, the tunnel entrance may well be original.
So many unanswered questions! Where is the original latin document that the poem was translated from? How did F. G. Slater (translater - Onetime vicar of Ince) get a copy of it? How can we see it now? I have been interested in this topic since at least 1989 when I first found a copy of the English version in a local Wirral history book (not sure which one).
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Plenty of mentions of Stanlaw here. See the orange things at the bottom.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
and this. Masses of information and too much to take in at once. There could be possible clues to who wrote the poem or when but I don't see anything mentioned anywhere specifically about a poem. Of course any possessions could have eventually gone to Lichfield. One monk went to Oxford. Maybe following Rev. F G Slater could take you on a tour where he may have found it. Good luck, and I hope you do come back with some more information. That would be good for everyone.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Thanks Granny for all your efforts. This search is becoming an obsession. I got a copy of F.G.Slater's 'Cheshire Parish....Ince' from the library but of the poem not a mention! I have downloaded Ormerod and will go through it again but so far no luck. Have also scanned thro' relevant bits of Whitaker; same result. Have now involved a friend in the search so here's hoping. Will keep you posted.
Just one thing I wonder about is the rhyming of the poem, considering the supposed date as I'm not sure what language the Abbey's monks and Abbots would have used.
Last edited by granny; 29th Jan 20176:06pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
It was translated from Latin which is why I'm so keen to see the original. If you translate into English and make it rhyme then you have to alter the original somewhat.
That's what I would have thought. At the same time, was it Latin ? We know the Bible was written in Latin, but according to this, there was a bit of a muddle going on with language and text. French, Anglo Saxon, Germanic,
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
No. Definitely Latin. In one of the texts I read (I've read so many!) it said F.G.Slater translated it from the Latin. A lot of the text in Ormerod and Whitaker is all in Latin.
There were also quite a few English Lyrics/verses handwritten at Stanlow Abbey which are generally thought to may be translations of earlier unknown documents. So middle English and Latin were used there.
Documents from Stanlow Abbey seem to be spread around (British Library, Lambeth Palace Library) but the move to Whalley Abbey has probably muddied the source/location for many others.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
So pleased you have joined us DD. I'm getting more and more confused. When they went to Whalley Abbey, there was an old Abbott Robert de Haworth (who had been there for about 25yrs) and 5 monks left at Stanlaw. It later became a grange to Whalley Abbey until the reformation
Originally, Stanlaw Abbey had been 'colonised' from Combermere Abbey .Combermere being the mother Abbey to Stanlaw and Whalley Abbey's.
From the end of the 13th century, the monks were transferred So, the poem could have been written anytime up to 1535.
Then Combermere was sold by the Cotton family , who had owned the Abbey and estate since the Dissolution, in 1919. It says almost all the archives were dispersed. The time Rev.F.G Slater was writing his books etc.
When reading this below, the poem seems to take on the very essence of the secluded, remote life they must have lead. It really is quite beautiful and passionate.
The Cistercians - or "white monks", on account of their undyed habits - led a harsher life than earlier monastic orders, believing in the virtue of a life of austerity, prayer and manual labour. Seeking seclusion, they founded their houses in wild and remote areas where they undertook major land improvement projects. Their communities were often very large and included many lay brethren who acted as ploughmen, dairymen, shepherds, carpenters and masons. The Cistercians' skills as farmers eventually made the order one of the richest and most influential. They were especially successful in the rural north of England where they concentrated on sheep farming. The Cistercians made a major contribution to many facets of medieval life and all of their monasteries which exhibit significant surviving archaeological remains are worthy of protection.
Last edited by granny; 29th Jan 201710:16pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Look under 'Browse by House' & Whalley and Stanlaw.
Last edited by granny; 30th Jan 201712:10am.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Many thanks for all the help. Yesterday I read again through Ormerod (Vol 2 relevant chapters) and F.G.Slater and saw a mention that Robert Haworth may have chosen to remain because of his affection for the place despite its traumas and disasters. That would certainly fit with the sentiments of the poem so he could have been the author. I will certainly examine the UCL database but having had a quick look it will take more time than I've got to spare right now. Maybe ths afternoon (fingers crossed).
Success! Original poem (in Latin) found. Friend from Moreton gave me the source and then it was just a question of poring through it to find what I was looking for. Here is the link for those who are interested: http://www.monasticmatrix.org/MatrixBooks/Dugdale/Volume5/Dugdale-Monasticon%20(Vol.%205%20Part%20099%20Stanlaw%20and%20Whalley).pdf
Success! Original poem (in Latin) found. Friend from Moreton gave me the source and then it was just a question of poring through it to find what I was looking for. Here is the link for those who are interested: http://www.monasticmatrix.org/MatrixBooks/Dugdale/Volume5/Dugdale-Monasticon%20(Vol.%205%20Part%20099%20Stanlaw%20and%20Whalley).pdf
page 648 No. xvii
I can't get the link. Help !!!
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Got it. Fascinating book if we can understand it. What a good find
It doesn't say who wrote it or when. Boo hoo.! Does it translate to the poem we know and share?
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
My Latin isn't good enough to translate exactly but the sentiment is there. "Christus lapis angularis...." is "cornerstone" for instance. I will have a full translation on Monday next week and I will post up the best I can. Glad you liked it and were able to read it!
This refers to Christ as the Cornerstone of which there are many verses in the Bible. The Cornerstone was the most important stone that kept all in place and Lapis Lazuli was often used when building. Here are a few of them-
Jesus said to them'Have you not read in the Scriptures 'The stone the builders rejected has become the Cornerstone.Therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners,but fellow citizens in the Lord,of the Saints and members of God's household'.
'In Him the whole building is fitted together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord'.
'Together we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ himself as the chief cornerstone'.
The Bible was not written in Latin but translated into Latin in 4th Century by St Jerome.
The Old Testament was written in Biblical Hebrew apart from a few chapters of Books of Ezra and Daniel and one verse of Jeremiah which was written in Aramaic the language Jesus would have spoken.
Greek was the language of scholarship 50AD to 100AD hence why the New Testament was written in Greek.
No photos yet unfortunately but hopefully here is a scanned drawing of stanlaw in 1723 [img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/19172060@N03/32881629325/in/dateposted-public/[/img] Not sure how to post up the image but I hope this works. Verbatim translation of the poem coming soon. (I hope!)
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Yes it does. I did put that in my flickr posting but I didn't upload it properly. DD somehow sorted it and published the picture. Samuel and Nathan Buck apparently drew all the abbey remains all over the country. Weren't we lucky that they included this one?!
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Looking at Exportcat's previous posts, I think that he must have a pass.
If you want to see all images, you need have membership, techgran.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
These pics appeared on a post on Facebook last couple of days. Just do a search for 'Stanlow Abbey' in Facebook search bar there are around 20 other pics of surrounding area too :-)
Thanks for that. It's a pity we can't see more of what's left. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the whole foundation line was opened up and all the encroaching vegetation cut away. A couple of friends in the local history society are making drawings of the ground plan and a drawing of the seal of the abbot. I'm not sure what their source is. I'm still waiting for another friend to do a translation of the Latin poem and will post it when it's done. I have had a go at it myself but my Latin knowledge is too limited to be reliable.
I can't see my own picture until I pay to upgrade my account. Because of this I wont be posting anymore here. I have posted pics on facebook pages 'wirral past and present' and 'wirral old and new'. I took these photos on 11-02-2017.
REALLY impressed with the photos but how did you manage to get there to take them?? I am trying to put together a presentation for the history group. Got some pictures from various places. Hoping to get the poem translated (other than the F. G. Slater one) soon. Would love to use your pics. I'm hoping to get some more from a friend who went there in the 80s but at the moment he's in Moreton and the pics are in Manchester. Fingers crossed.
First of the ACTUAL translations of the Stanlaw poem: ***************** Epitaph praising places
O Stanlaw when death releases me and entrusts me to you Not in vain did nature give you your name for this place, Although cruel fate has now extinguished your fame. Until now your brief hour powerfully transcends that of nearby places. Stan and Law are different but turned around to Law and Stan are sadly fitting; Thus the two divided things become one and fit together. Law is hill, Stan is the stone which gives relief to the weary. These words make sense to the grateful sinner, taking away the cloak of mystery. Christ is the cornerstone, and hill alone the profoundness of the Lord. Holy altar stone on which lies the saving meal given to mankind. So Stanlaw, given such a great name confers authority. **************** Still difficult to translate in some places because of the deliberate play on words and the multiple meanings of some of them. At least one more translation still to come and perhaps two.
Well, well. That is even more beautiful . One wonders how the translation can be so diluted, but I suppose that's what they call ' artistic licence'.
The wording 'Although cruel fate has now extinguished your fame' would indicate that it was written about the time it was transferred to Whalley Abbey. All words lead to the Prior who stayed behind, in my opinion. (I can't remember his name atm.)
Thank you techgran, very interesting .
Last edited by granny; 3rd Mar 20179:20pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I'm really surprised that you think it is more beautiful. I thought it was a bit unwieldy but I was glad that the meaning was quite close to Slater's version. I'm still waiting for another version translated by a friend who has a degree in Medieval Latin as I think that could be a more accurate translation. The abbot's name was Robert Haworth and I think it must have been him who wrote it and I agree with you that it seems from the sentiments expressed that it was round about the time of the transfer to Whalley. Another friend sent me a picture of the abbot's seal which is in a page of Whitaker between pages 142 and 143 if you find that interesting. I'll post up the next translation possibly tomorrow. There seems to be so much information. I wonder if we could get up a petition to ask Stanlow Oil to clear the vegetation and expose the outline of the foundations.
Epitaph in praise of a place O Stanlaw, death will place my grave with you when I die; Not in vain has the name for the local character of the place been given to you under a figure of speech. Allowed to be suppressed by cruel fate, you now emerge with slight reputation, you are by no means the least. As yet the fleeting hour remains in which you surpass the neighbouring places. Stan and Law are opposites, but Stan has been turned to Law, having been placed beside it. Let not these two be separated, they are both turned into one and become a united whole. Law is hill and Stan is stone on which the weary bee finds rest. If you understand the substance of this saying, you will thankfully understand the meaning of the place. Christ is the cornerstone and the unparalleled height of the hill of the Lord. The stone lies on the sacred altar, on which the saving food becomes a gift to mankind. Oh Stanlaw, the creator of your name has given you that name as a sign.
The most accurate translation of the Stanlaw poem so far. Many thanks to Catherine Jones
It is somewhat different from the poem 'Stanlaw' we usually read. Poetic license can lead us to a different, and not necessarily complete or honest transcript.
Much appreciated.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
This article about Stanlow Abbey in the Birkenhead News of December 1936 may be of interest. It’s a report of a local historical society meeting, but unfortunately I only copied part of the article. I was researching something else on the page and this article just happened to be copied at the same time.
I find it strange that the Earls of Lincoln were buried there. It must have been of some great importance as an Abbey and there must have been a good reason for it being their burial place. Maybe because they were Barons of Halton. Sir John de Lacy 1st Easrl also died at Stanlaw. Don't know about the others Just realised, the Earls of Lincoln were Constables of Chester. (De Lacy)
Techgran; I have sent you a pm.
Last edited by granny; 4th Apr 20178:19pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Thanks Granny for all your efforts. The Abbey was founded by the de Lacys and they stipulated that they were to be buried there. The founder - Henry, I think- established it as a kind of spiritual security as he was going off to fight in the crusades but was unfortunately killed there any way. All the remains of the de Lacy's were removed to Whalley and reburied. The remaining bones were the monks that had died there, the abbots in lead-lined coffins. These were not all discovered until early 19th C. The abbot of the remaining cell was definitely Robert Haworth who had been abbot during the better times of the abbey (and then retired) and he requested to remain after the transfer and become abbot again. A lot of this is well documented in Whitaker and Dugdale both of which are available online. Hope you find it as interesting as I do.
Thanks Techgran, you have given lots of information of your findings, for us to enjoy.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I remember in the 1960's, my father worked at the REFINERY?? Not sure if that has any relation to this one. He was a specialised electrician and used to get called in all the time, at all hours. Mostly they would send a car for him, all hours. I moved to Aus in 1970 so never got to interogate him.
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when i used to travel up to Eastham Ferry on my bike i would ride down the Queen dock i got told off cause it was private but the locks where always closed when no ships where entering the canal i dont know how security tight it is but im sure if people like walking they could sneak onto the point where the locks are and cross to it cause i know there closed when no ships pass.. Weather or not it happens know i dunno but ive always been intrested in that part and love to go and have an explore but i think it is private land but why is it so cut off lol.. But know theres an abbey there id deffo love to go see it lol.. 
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missguided you crack me up! lol![[Linked Image]](https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/13143/filename/sig.jpg)
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Please do not adjust your mind, there is a slight problem with reality
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