Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request Possible crop marks in Landican?

Including them, but also the much larger thicker dark lines to the east of them.

Try again, these?

Yep, thanks, these and the earlier image you posted.

Is this for real? Looks like normal everyday farmland to me. OK I can see the shading on the pics but grasses and other plants get darker if there is a seam of nutrients, like a change in the drainage of the land or underground geology. I can't see anything unusual in willjbs pics, thanks for posting the area in question will, I couldn't find them myself.

No probs, glad to help.
I think the crop marks in the second picture are more interesting, to me at least, possible trackway and village layout. The third pic looks like possible shadowing on the pic or as you say bobi, richer soil.

Thanks Will,

A look at the site on the ground perhaps by a field archaeologist, could prove to be worthwhile. Much obliged for your patience and help.

Tom.

Phone Tony Robinson, we need a bit of action here!! Lol Jess

No probs Tom, enjoyed it. I wasn't going to quit until I identified the right area.

I think I might've been a bit hasty before although I'm still not sure why tom was so interested in the crop marks-I thought he was going on about crop circles, doh. Sorry tom.

Thanks again Will, and no probs bobi1. To answer your question, bobi1, I've lived nearby the Landican fields all my life and played in them as a child. I've also long suspected that there was a hidden story about the place (Landican) that went deeper than the usual etymology of its name as 'St Tegan's Church'. It is unusual in being the only Celtic 'Llan' left in Wirral, or should I say left from 'Penrhyn Cilgwri' (Welsh) "The headland enclosed retreat of Gwri" a Welsh hero from the Mabiniogion who earlier even than that according to Roger Sherman Loomis in 'Celtic Myth and Arthurian Romance' was an archetypal Solar Deity and the original for 'Gawain' (of the medieval Gawain and The Green Knight poem) and of the Grail Knight: Percival too.
Wirral then, was Gwri's 'Cil' (Kil in Old Irish/Gaelic), and given that the etymology of Lan/Llan is related to 'Clan' as in the tribe or folk land, then the survival of this Welsh/British name despite the later Anglian and Norse settlements in the area perhaps give a hint to the places one-time significance. It's interesting that Thingwall as the accepted assembly of the Norse is bang on the border with Landican - the possible assembly area of the native Britons - and it may just be that it was in local memory of the significance of 'Landican' that 'Thingwall' was snipped-off from its parent land and re-named by the Norse. The name 'Landican' is translated in Doomsday in Norman French as Oak Enclosure or Oak Church, and this may of course relate to the nearby Woodchurch - itself accepted as once being part of landican. There's plenty of local lore about the site of the Church. In 1977, Canon Ronald Edwin Tostevin of Woodchurch, gave me a monograph (published by him) in which he outlined his theory of the Druid origin of the Church site - ostensibly preserved in the nearby road name: 'Druids Way'. Canon Tostevin belived (very reasonably) that the early Christians over-built their 'wooden' church onto the original Druid site which included a sacrificial pool (hence Pool Lane nearby Druids Way) most likely out from the wood of the sacred Druid Oaks.
In Gaelic/Irish Landican translates as "lanndaichean" and is a simple plural meaning 'The Enclosures' rather than a Church: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lann This seems a simpler etymology and suggests that perhaps there never was a 'St Tegan' associated with either Landican or Woodchurch. Wirral/Penrhyn Cilgwri was part of the sub-Roman Kingdom of Gwynedd, and Gwynedd was heavily settled by Gaelic/Hibernian Irish raiders at the end of the Roman period so we should expect to find some surviving place-name evidence - as we do in nearby Noctorum for example - although the usual explanation for this is the Norse-Gael settlement 500 years later in the 10th century (the Viking Spam again of local history that ignores the Celtic substrate). The Welsh/British Gwri, is in fact the Irish Curoi, so the connection is indeed very deep. Its worth noting too the dedication of another ancient Wirral Church - St Bridget's is Irish too, and pre-Norse. Gwri in his many transformations is involved with the Celtic versions of the Arthurian Grail myths, although most will only be familiar with him from his incarnation as 'Gawain'. As a side note - Gawain's journey to Wirral in 'Sir Gawain and The Green Knight' (13th century) is perfectly understandable given that Gawain is Gwri, and 'The Wirral' is Gwri's personal retreat. Its interesting in the poem that the geography of his journey from Arthur's court to find the Green Knight's chapel is easily traceable until Gawain reaches Wirral.
Most scholars seem perplexed by this, but a simple answer from the Celtic perspective is that as soon as he arrives 'home' on the Wiral he has already passed through a portal to the 'Otherworld' or Annwn (the prototype for Avalon) and so the physical geography naturally enough ends.
Gwri's mother was Rhiannon - sometimes Goddess of the Moon and of horses. On Gwri's birth a foal is also born nearby. Remembering that Gwri is a Solar deity (a Sun God) then the birth of Gwriis as the birth of the Sun. Wirral is Gwri's land, and on Bidston Hill there is the well known carving of a Goddess giving birth to the Sun - and neaby a horses head carving with a Sun-Disc wheel symbol on its neck. Again, both of these carvings are regularly credited as Viking, yet, both the Horse and sun disc are Celtic symbols and given the significance of Wirral in Gwri's and Rhiannon's story it seems claer that they are in fact Celtic in origin. A line of sight due west from these carvings see's Hilbre Island behind which the sun sets. Due east of cousre is the point at which it rises. The significance of Hilbre isalnd is a notehr topic in itself, as Gwri's land (Wirral) borders that of King Bran (Ban/Brion) in modern North Wales over the Dee estuary, and King Bran was keeper of the Cauldron of re-Birth/Plenty sometimes called The Cauldron of Britain. Gwri in adolescence was renamed Pryderi, and he (Pryderi) became a guardian of Annwn/Avalon (there's much more to this but space is limited).
Returning back to Landican - it is the possible site of the Enclosures of the Kin - Gwri's Kin, their 'assembly' the memory of which re-surfaced in the Norse period as Thingwall.
There's been precious little archaeology in and around Landican and Woodchurch apart from a find reported from Wopodchurch in 1923 of a Roman spear point and a 'Votive' Bronze Cauldron - votive meaning 'offering' remember the Celtic Cauldron of re-birth and its connection to Gwri. By chance I found on this forum a post from someone who says that there'll be an arachaeological announcement later this year 2010 that'll make 'fropnt page' news and will re-write the history of the Woodchurch and Landican area. I've posted to ak the person concerned if he'll let us know more - no reply yet.
So, my intetest in Landican is long standing, hence my curiosity at what I described as 'possible' crop marks as viewable on Google Satelite images.
The area is deeply ingrained in my psyche and I've written about it in at least six of my published novels.

Cheers,

Tom.

WOW!!!!!!!!
I thought you'd just happened to notice some lines on a map!
Space isn't limited matey, fill your boots I'm riveted!

Wow, keep going Im hooked.

Fascinating stuff. More! More!

Smashing stuff Tom, look forward to more of the same.