Well thus far what we seem to be confirming is that, not unaturally, on more exposed coastal areas of the Wirral, there is some documented 19th Century evidence of sea/flood defence, with earlier maps, again focused on similar locations. We are still however, on the basis of such observation not able to agree that the River Fender derives its name from flood prevention constructions (so-named fenders) as map/archeological evidence for such defences along the course of the river, seem so far not forthcoming. What defensive measures that are noted appear cnfined for the most part to the 19th Century and restricted to immediate coastal zones of obvious risk. I am not sure we can extrapolate from such scant offerings a convincing conclusion that the river was so named, of course more ancient maps may yet prove illuminating on the subject.
...thus far what you seem to be confirming for me Erainn, is a bit more than just a passing interest in this topic!! It's becoming more and more academically specific by the day.
Personally I'm very impressed with the level of interest that's already been expressed in these postings, and particularly the efforts made by some individuals putting up maps, etc. I thought this was just an informal history forum - not an Oxbridge entry exam!
The Cheshire Tithes map show it marked as the Fender by Ford Bridge Upton,by Upton railway station,1836-51 tithe map most of the marked drains going into the Fender and along the Birket appear not to have changed ,the only changes I can see is where it meets the M53 and of course on the modern map the widening and deepening.
Exactly my recollection of the Fender. Can not recall if there was some sort of bridge over it where Townfield Lane passed under the railway heading for Woodchurch. Always seemed to be a natural water course. Could you be talking about two separate entites which happen have the same name ?
if there was an ingress of sea water and a wash off of of animal and human waste spoiling the drinking water. Would it not make sence to build banks ect to stop the spoil rather than the flood.A flowing stream of fresh water would be an asset if the salt water table and flood was into the fender valley.
Totally agree the contributions and exchanges of information have been wonderful, it is an interesting topic and clearly one that poses more questions than answers. For example, does anyone know of any documents or maps that show (along the inland course of the river) flood embankments prior to the 19th Century? Or again why would just one of Wirral's rivers be named after a flood prevention construction, when no doubt other rivers were equally prone to flooding? It does not make sense, more so when the virtual majority of rivers and streams across Britain were named at some ancient time and retained those titles, despite later settlements by different groups, be they Saxon, Scandinavian. Anyone with some interest and knwoeldge of Wirral's history knows that despite heavy settlements by such peoples earlier place-names survive, such as Wallasey, Liscard, and perhaps significant to this discussion, Landican. In considering such factors it seems odd that a key river of the penninsular would be named at such a late stage, either 17th Century or even later to coincide with flood defences on the coast.
There is agreeement on the fact Wirral suffered flooding, concurrence too that the more exposed coastal region Meols, etc had flood/river defences built. Yet such information itself does not form convincing evidence that the Fender was named after river management construction, it merly identifies 19th Century (or slightly earlier) engineering to limit flooding in a specific area, away from the inland source and course of the river.
It may well have been eminently sensible to do so, but the key points here are:
Where is the physical evidence for such constructions?
Have such constructions been examined to determine a date?
Are they visible still? Along the inland course of the river?
Is there any written record, map or otheriwise that can show when such defences were built?
I tend to agree with the observations made by fellow contributors, in that the Fender always seemed to be a natural flowing stream more than anything. I do not recall from my own childhood playing along riverside embankments.
Referring back to Banksfield or Banksfield House taking its name from a fender or the main Fender, i would be of the opinion its name derives from the Wallasey embankment (Leasowe to Meols) Though not sure when Banksfield first appeared on a map. The first recorded work on a coatal embankment i have found so far is dated 1794 and is made from sand, clay and peat, further work was carried out in 1829 and called the old embankment and again in 1894 called the new embankment,as recently as 1973 more work was carried out and finished in 1981, which we have today. Initially the first embankment 1794 was put in place because of the fear The Irish sea could cut its way through to Wallasey pool.
I have noted reading through many accounts, the fear of flooding from Wallasey pool was a problem, the main risk was from the erosion from the Irish sea. On reading many accounts, repeatedly the word embankment is used for sea defences and no where have i came across fender being used in that context. As previously mentioned, it does seem unusual to have a river with no name, I'm beginning to wonder did the Main Fender and the Birket have a defined connection point before The Embankment at and Wallasey pool dock system was constructed, before that, wouldn't it be one big tidal pool. Below tithe map 1836/51 showing Embankment.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
Bert, that's very useful and helpful map, as you raise there is some uncertainty as to the nature of either the Birket or th Fender at the point of confluence, and more tellingly at a point of possible marsh tidal area. A brackish pool springs to mind, with any streams/rivers emptying into such an area, difficult to see how anyone looking at such a scene, held back by defensive embankments, would then go on to name the entire length of the inland river after such defences.
So we know the "Fender" is up to Woodchurch rd and past that to Pensby Prenton brook,could it be that's where the flooding ended, it is a valley, the railway line hides that bit, if all that area flooded and ran into as it still does the Moss,then why wouldn't locals think of the river courses as Fender,if you think about it,you go up to Upton on one side and up to Bidston/Ford on the other from where Upton station is,all we see is a built up area and maps the may or may not be accurate ,with books that may or may not have been written at the time,this is getting deep better stop.
Thinking again about it you don't put up a barrier where you don't think you need one,the whole area around Moreton was low lying,Morton and Lingum,town or hill in the marsh?, I think we need a map of ground and water levels, if whole area was marsh and a drainage channel from that way and from Pensby met in an area of marsh with other channels the would "Fender" cover these channels,to me it appears they were draining the whole area for a long long time,I know their's a reference that German prisoner's of war in WWI were camped at Bidston draining that area.
To add a bit more,had a look at the Google map,terrain and the M53 goes through a light green low level narrow area from Upton to Woodchurch rd Upton it does go wider as it gets closer to the coast,does anybody have any terrain maps?
...understand what you're getting at davew3, and it's right what you say about the German P.O.W's in the First World War. That gets mentioned in quite a few local history books - including 'Auld-Lang-Syne'.
I think what Erainn is specifically interested in is trying to find out how far back the Fender name goes, because it may have had an earlier name (possibly a British/Celtic one) before it became 'fendered', or managed in the way it has been in the last few centuries.
Just to refer back to an earlier contribution from nightwalker in which he gave us a quote saying that the Birket was always known to locals as the Fender - this is also confirmed elsewhere. The letter written by Sir Edward Cust to the Liverpool authorities expressing his concerns over the growing threat of flooding was sent in 1828, and in this letter he specifically refers to the waters being carried into 'The Fender'. This date of 1828 quite obviously pre-dates the building of both the Leasowe Embankment and the enclosure of Wallasey Pool for dock construction. So, even though this date in itself is not particularly early, it is early enough to rule out the idea that it got its name specifically because of 19th century developments.
What Erainn wants to know is if the modern day Fender in central Wirral also had this name in earler times because, bearing in mind that both these watercourses rise from different sources, wouldn't you expect The Fender which flows from Landican to have had a name that better reflected its origins?
I understand Geekus, but Cust says The Fender ,I wonder if he was using the words,Ie it had been "fendered" so he was stating "The Fender" the fendered part was working but they were still getting flooding and he was still worried,remember Liverpool town council owned both sides of Wallasey pool,I think the last part to be "fendered" was from the Moss to Upton Ford Bridge and the name stuck,the straight bits even in the 1835 Tithes suggest the low lying areas were getting worked on as well as getting drained and the "fendered" main channels were getting wide enough to be called rivers as the land use changed.
