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derekdwc #489035 21st Mar 2011 9:58am
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Not sure how relevant the following is, but the origin of the name Gill has some interesting associations, most notably Norse, and also Irish.

1. English: from a short form of the given names Giles, Julian, or William. In theory the name would have a soft initial when derived from the first two of these, and a hard one when from William or from the other possibilities discussed below. However, there has doubtless been much confusion over the centuries, and the modern pronunciation can hardly be taken as a reliable guide to the origin.
2. Northern English: topographic name for someone who lived by a ravine or deep glen, Middle English gil, gill (Old Norse gil gill of a fish, also used in a transferred sense of a ravine). 3. Scots and Irish: Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac Gille (Scots), Mac Giolla (Irish), patronymics from an occupational name for a servant or a short form of the various personal names formed by attaching this element to the name of a saint. The Old Norse personal name Gilli is probably of this origin, and may lie behind some examples of the name in Northern England. 4. Scots and Irish: Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac An Ghoill. 5. Dutch: cognate of Giles.

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derekdwc #489138 21st Mar 2011 1:42pm
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Nice clear map, Derek. Here's another one showing the Gill Brook and also one I've not come across before - Bridge End Brook.


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Erainn #489155 21st Mar 2011 2:07pm
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I've found some plums on the floor over here; did they fall out of somebodies mouth?

Erainn #489175 21st Mar 2011 3:14pm
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Please this is fairly serious debate for those of us that are interested in it even those opinions we don't agree with - don't start up an argument.

Last edited by derekdwc; 21st Mar 2011 3:16pm.
Erainn #489196 21st Mar 2011 4:05pm
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Going off topic - can anyone name the roads on the map?
I've put on 2 that I think are correct

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Last edited by derekdwc; 21st Mar 2011 4:06pm.
Erainn #489267 21st Mar 2011 5:54pm
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A little snippet to confuse some more
from
http://...co.uk/wallasey/Wallasey_Ferries_The_Beginnings/index.html


About 1552 proceedings were commenced when John Minshull and his ferry man, John Bromborough, were accused by Ralph Worsley, owner of the Woodside passage, of violating his rights as successor to the Priory estates. Minshull had set up a rival ferry and a busy fish yard within the confines of Birket (Tranmere) Pool and claimed as he owned 'the ferry of Secum', he had ancient rights to the rights of Tranmere

Could the stream coming off Tranmere Pool have once been called the Birkett or was it the Happy Valley?

Last edited by derekdwc; 21st Mar 2011 5:55pm.
derekdwc #489302 21st Mar 2011 6:32pm
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According to McIntyre (Birkenhead, Yesterday and Today) "Borough Road was then [1801] a wooded valley with a stream running to Tranmere Pool, which began to widen at the bottom of Clifton Road" I've not come across a name for this stream other than references to the Happy Valley

Erainn #489339 21st Mar 2011 7:08pm
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Have a look at "The City Of The Dead." The early history of the town
Mr Fergusson Irvines Interesting Lecture.
A few roads get a mention and Toad Hole Farm you might be able to transfer some of the information onto your maps

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Been reading this and its very interesting. I live on the noctorum, by the townfield shops. Opposite those shops (by the field) there is a ditch, which seems to lead over the road to where the new miller homes estate is. If you travel further into the woods then you get the impression that there was a small stream or water way passing through there.

I was just wodnering as to whether anybody had any information on this?

BennyBoy #489397 21st Mar 2011 8:11pm
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This is the area in question

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nightwalker #489429 21st Mar 2011 8:39pm
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Maps of where the Gill Brook emptied into the West Float.
That famous old 'tubular' 87 ton crane was on the corner of the basin.

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O.S. 1910
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Erainn #489442 21st Mar 2011 8:52pm
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Bridge End Brook seems to pop up from nowhere, could it be the spring in the park,which used to be the cented garden.

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Here's an 1835 Bennison map of Bridge End Brook entering docks at a big basin, with Corporation Road crossing it, presumably by the bridge. I estimate it would have been near the South side of Egerton Dock.
Could Gill Brook and Bridge End Brook have been diverted later into the Great Culvert?

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Bennison 1835, Bridge End Brook
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Originally Posted by paranoidballoon
Bridge End Brook seems to pop up from nowhere, could it be the spring in the park,which used to be the cented garden.

I think you're spot on!! WRS McIntyre writing in 1948: "From the marshy land near the present Park Entrance, a stream wound along the course of what is now Conway Street, turned between Camden Street and Adelphi Street, and emptied into Wallasey Pool by Bridge End Farm"

Erainn #489501 21st Mar 2011 9:41pm
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someone mentioned a river running under the oid Ritz picture house on conway st, clicky smile


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