Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request Photographs of Birkenhead

My opening line to this thread is completely true. I have realised that I never really looked around me, saw the streets that have now gone. I am sad that I never saw so much of my much loved and missed home town. I was born and lived in Tudor Rd, Rock Ferry.It was a small terraced house, no inside loo, tin bath used on Sunday bathnight. We had cockroach infestation, and actually lived with our Grandparents as well. The house was overcrowded.I would not change one thing of this. I loved living where we did. We did get rehoused to the Prenton Estate in the early sixties. It never had the same feeling of community that Tudor Rd had.Interestingly the Tudor Rd house is still there, very much improved and cared for by the current residents.

I think it says more about the bonds of Family and the importance of a loving upbringing. Regardless of whether we grow up in a poor residential district or a stately home if we are blessed with family and friends the buildings themselves are largely irrelevant. In many ways, the more austere our circumstances the close those bonds are forged.

Geekus is absolutely right, family bonds etc. The fact that the Tudor rd house is still standing suggests that at that time decent living accommodation took precedence over community spirit. I can't share Lyn's enthusiasm for living in such conditions having been born in to a similar type of house and circumstances. Though only young when moving, the delight of moving to a house with all inside facilities, hot and cold running water, a bedroom of my own and a garden where i could visit insects in their environment instead of them visiting mine, normally dropping on my head in the night. Community spirit is one thing but a lot of people have traded it for decent living accommodation.

I have enjoyed reading all the points made by members. I think Geekus is absolutely right, thank you for expressing that feeling so well.I did not really mean to start a discussion about communities as such, although I am glad it did. My main point was, there was so much of the town around me. It has only been by seeing the photos on Wiki Wirral, that I see how much ,I didn't actually see!

Debate is fine, we can all agree on that, however distortions and fallacy that set-up straw man arguments, do not really serve any purpose but to distract, as evidenced by this response. In that context that form of 'debate' subverts the flow and exchange of contributions.

Lyn, Precisely

Nobody, apart from that featured in your self-serving line of misrepresentation, had asserted that one took precedence over the other. What was observed was that much has been lost,the town transformed (not always for the better) and that community and identity naturally was changed by that process.

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Lyn I hope you don't feel any discomfort about subsequent discussion regadin how communities in Birkenhead were scattered to the winds, as you correctly observed, "The communities that where there, all disbanded to estates.". That impact is directly related to the 'developments' that transformed the town.

The problem Erainn is, if a thread doesn't move in a certain direction that suits you, the dummy comes out of the pram. If you think its gone off course then make a contribution to bring it back on, move the debate to a direction where you think it belongs, by all means keep having a pop at me, but water off a ducks back I'm afraid.

Welcome back eriann – it’s taken you a while to find another thread in which you can vent your pretentious spleen.

I am surprised you find my previous comments perplexing, however here's the context, they refer to remarks made by Bert1, which rather than addressing what I had actually written, presented a set of arguments no one (apart from Bert) had made. This is known as 'Fallacy' or to be more precise a tactic called 'Straw Man Argument', to illustrate this further here's Bert's reply, with my notes in blue

"Whether it be butchery or not, i for one would only ever rejoice (the discussion was not about the obvious benefits of moving people in extreme poverty/housing conditions) in getting families out of rat and cockroach infested (again use of emotionally loaded terms that had no relevance to what I had written) properties, i fear those who hanker (my comments had in no way suggested a wish to restore conditions to the horror picture painted by Bert) after so called communities have either never lived (presumption and concealed insult) in them or only have the protection of childhood memories, which always offer a different perspective. When these areas are cleared i suppose its only natural to remember them from some sort of blinked and romantic happy time of community spirit and fondness, yet the reality of it is, living with outside toilets, no bath or bathroom, a constant struggle to keep wallpaper on the wall, shared bedrooms and vermin. Add that to the forever wearing down of health, it can only be viewed as a job well done getting rid of them (again this is a grossly exagerrated and emotionally loaded creation of Bert's that has no connection with what I had actually written)Getting rid of buildings of interest, of course thats a shame and could be seen as a crime and yet could you imagine the uproar if it meant putting the rates up to do so. Keeping cost effectiveness and a happy balance is not so easy."

Now the general rule of conversation/debate is 'connectivity' and relevance with what has been actually stated, otherwise in distorting what people say, or putting words in someone's mouth simply to validate your own arguments either distracts or subverts the general debate. That is what was meant, I trust you can now more fully appreciate the point.

I shall not dignify your comments with any meaningful response, apart to state that insult is no substitute for reason and mature debate. If you are willing to restrict your comments to balanced and civilized tone I am happy to exchange, otherwise clearly it would be a pointless exercise.

Bert I require no lecture on going off topic from a clear master of the art such as yourself, why, you even created your own arguments for yourself, rather than addressing what I actually stated.