WikiWirral its great, register, enjoy and welcome.
Forum Statistics
Forums65
Topics76,422
Posts1,033,693
Members14,733
Most Online21,357
Oct 2nd, 2024
Who's Online Now
8 members (1 invisible), 12,865 guests, and 497 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters
sunnyside 45,164
MattLFC 22,315
Mark 21,269
granny 17,803
_Ste_ 16,347
Newest Members
AlexT, RobThomas, Phoenix1971, Andyg64, Zeryxl
14,733 Registered Users
New General Forums
Last person to post wins...
by GaryB - 9th Oct 2007 8:15pm
New Wirral History
Eleanor Road Bidston (Bishops House)
by RobThomas - 18th Nov 2024 7:45am
Croxteth and Spring Streets
by Croxtethroberts - 16th Nov 2024 9:54am
Slavery Wirral
by granny - 14th Jul 2023 1:15pm
735 Grand Hotel / Royal Marine, New Brighton
by Norton - 8th Feb 2014 6:53pm
A Postcard from New Brighton
by Norton - 18th Apr 2012 3:21pm
Top Posters(30 Days)
bert1 33
JunxinH 16
Topic Replies
The Zieglers in Oxton
by bert1 - 21st Nov 2024 11:36am
Eleanor Road Bidston (Bishops House)
by bert1 - 20th Nov 2024 6:32pm
Barnston Dale
by bert1 - 20th Nov 2024 6:28pm
Another SIgn of the Times
by diggingdeeper - 19th Nov 2024 1:35pm
Wallasey woman arrested following knifing incident
by diggingdeeper - 18th Nov 2024 12:53am
Croxteth and Spring Streets
by bri445 - 17th Nov 2024 2:42pm
Mersey Barrage
by diggingdeeper - 14th Nov 2024 2:37am
Smoking and Cancer
by diggingdeeper - 14th Nov 2024 2:32am
735 Grand Hotel / Royal Marine, New Brighton
by KevinFinity - 9th Nov 2024 10:16pm
November
M T W T F S S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
None yet
Top Likes Received
bert1 14
casper 4
Mark 4
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
What may help is a street directory with occupants for 1851/61/71,if anyone has one. Also i have Ancestry, does anyone know if its possible to bring streets up only on various census.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Google Ads
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,973
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,973
I used to just put street name and town in the "keywords" box and leave every other box blank,if i remember correctly.

Last edited by poodlepup; 10th Oct 2011 1:05pm.

Every dog has its day!
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Thanks PP, doesn't seem to want to work for me. Just wanted to see if some streets, areas, had a higher portion of Irish people.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,973
Forum Guardian
Offline
Forum Guardian
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,973
My membership has expired,but i can still view,let me go and see if i can search the free census,back in 5


Every dog has its day!
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 376
Likes: 1
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 376
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by bert1
The figures Nightwalker posted,The Irish being approx 33 percent of Birkenheads population in 1851, is it possible that Birkenhead had its own Irish Quarter before integrating fully amongst the local already established inhabitants. Its not uncommon for immigrants to develop herding instincts, wanting to be close to friends and relatives. Any thoughts on this?

Since I started writing this there have been other posts covering some of my observations. Rather than make changes, here are my thoughts:

I think you’re right Bert. Although I have not found anything definitive, there are mentions in various reports and articles about particular areas being predominantly Irish. For example, the report I posted on the smallpox outbreak (1870) states that the population in the area around Egerton Street “partakes largely of the Irish element”. Also the Garibaldi riots (1862) were centred around Holy Trinity Church in Price Street “which was sited in the midst of streets housing thousands of Irish Catholic labourers and their families” (THSLC, 1981).

If we make some assumptions, it is possible to get an idea of where and why the Irish immigrants might have gathered within the town. It is reasonable to think that many of the immigrants landing in Liverpool on the 1840/1850s were aware of, or soon found out about, the major building works being carried out in Birkenhead: Monks’ Ferry Tunnel, railways and - the biggest of the lot - the docks and warehouses. These building works would require a huge pool of ‘new’ labourers (in 1845 at least 1500 were working on the docks alone) and it is probable that a high proportion of these were Irish.

The Birkenhead Dock Company realised early on that “they must submit to much inconvenience, expense and delay, if they did not provide accommodation for their numerous workmen” (W.W. Mortimer), and by 1845, 350 ‘cottages’ had been built. I've not been able to find where these were. By 1847, the Dock Company owned all the land between Poulton Bridge and St. James’ Church extending along Wallasey Pool to Woodside. Assuming that the Company continued with its policy of providing accommodation for its workers, then I would expect that this would be the area where they would be built (the Dock Cottages?). Going back to my first assumption that a high proportion of the workmen would be Irish this would account for their congregation in this general area. It would be natural that subsequent Irish immigrants would tend to gravitate to these areas.

The quote about the Garibaldi riots specifies the Irish Catholics so a useful exercise might be to identify where the early Catholic Churches were founded.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Indeed the churches and possibly Catholic schools, are they normally built in close proximity to the churches?

Not sure if this is a complete list for Catholic churches in Birkenhead. Taken off Genuki.

Birkenhead, St. Werburgh (Roman Catholic), Grange Road. Founded 1834.
Birkenhead, Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception and St. Edward the Confessor (Roman Catholic), Cavendish Street. Founded 1854.
Birkenhead, St. Laurence (Roman Catholic), Beckwith Street. Founded 1864.
Birkenhead, St. Joseph (Roman Catholic), North Road. Founded 1900.
Birkenhead, Holy Cross (Roman Catholic), Hoylake Road. Founded 1928

Last edited by bert1; 10th Oct 2011 3:38pm.

God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 576
Smartchild
Offline
Smartchild
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 576

The years between 1834 and 1854 saw a huge influx of Catholics into the town - many of them presumably Irish. This is illustrated by the fact that Our Lady's, designed by Edward Pugin, was at one stage proposed to be a new cathedral, moving the Catholic diocesan headquarters from Shrewsbury.

Last edited by yoller; 10th Oct 2011 3:44pm. Reason: duplication
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,212
Forum Veteran
Online Content
Forum Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,212
list of churches pic posted by chriskay

I don't think all the Irish would have been Catholics.

Attached Images
churches_sm.jpg (145.92 KB, 105 downloads)
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Not all Derek but a fair assumption most would be.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 376
Likes: 1
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 376
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by bert1
Just wanted to see if some streets, areas, had a higher portion of Irish people.

Out of curiosity (and because I’m turning into a sad anorak), I’ve done an analysis of a street in the 1851 census. I chose Neptune Street for the only reasons that it was there in 1851, seemed to be in the right area and wasn’t too long.

The bare facts are:

Number of occupied houses - 23
Total residents – 224 of which 108 were born in Ireland
House occupation: 1 family – 8; 2 families – 13; 3 families – 1; 4 families – 1.
(41 families lived in 23 houses).

Not included in the figure of those born in Ireland are children who appeared to be born in Birkenhead of Irish parentage. So, those of Irish heritage exceeded 50% of the street's residents.

The average occupation density of almost 10 per house is very high even for those times. I have no idea of the size of the houses in Neptune Street but cannot imagine them being particularly big. However, average figures can blur reality. For example, number 23 was occupied by 16 people: 2 families consisting of 9 adults and 7 children/babies under the age of 8. The conditions they must have been living under are unimaginable.

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Wiki Veteran
Offline
Wiki Veteran
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,682
Likes: 14
Well done NW, I've worked on property's in Neptune st and they are not that big, I suppose cramped living conditions became the norm for some working class families especially those who just come here, life being what it was, any roof over their heads must have been acceptable compared to the alternative.
The street being right on the east float would have been close to where the employment was.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Page 3 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Mod 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Random Wirral Images

Click to View Topic.
Newest Topics
Barnston Dale
by CupcakeKaren - 20th Nov 2024 12:35pm
Another SIgn of the Times
by diggingdeeper - 19th Nov 2024 1:35pm
The Zieglers in Oxton
by JemimaOxton - 18th Nov 2024 3:07pm
Eleanor Road Bidston (Bishops House)
by RobThomas - 18th Nov 2024 7:45am
Croxteth and Spring Streets
by Croxtethroberts - 16th Nov 2024 9:54am
For Sale & Free
Jorvik mt11 trike
by Dilly - 27th Oct 2024 2:49pm
Member Spotlight
_Ste_
_Ste_
Skid Row
Posts: 16,347
Joined: August 2005
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
New Wirral Info
Barnston Dale
by CupcakeKaren - 20th Nov 2024 12:35pm
The Zieglers in Oxton
by JemimaOxton - 18th Nov 2024 3:07pm
Mersey Barrage
by Excoriator - 20th Sep 2024 9:43am
News : New Topics
Another SIgn of the Times
by diggingdeeper - 19th Nov 2024 1:35pm
Wallasey woman arrested following knifing incident
by _jase_ - 8th Sep 2010 3:02pm
New Enthusiast Forums
Smoking and Cancer
by diggingdeeper - 5th Nov 2024 3:12am
Popular Topics(Views)
5,333,589 WIKI WALK CHAT
4,227,094 Spotted!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5