Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral History BIRDS HOUSE

That must make you Wallasey royalty Gran! I'm pretty sure that the Walley's go back to the 14th Century.

By the way, the archives have quite a few of the Wills and Probate Inventories left by various members of the Bird family.

http://archivedatabases.cheshire.go...nv=&cod=&sort=Surname&page=0

Nothing on William Bird though.

Marty.

Esther (Bird) Moores then wife of William Moores (according to a look on familysearch, always a bit suspect)does state she died at Peover, Cheshire, in 1733. I do think this entry to be correct as she married William at St.Hilary's, and all dates seem to tally.

Geekus.

Have had a look at the Wills archives. I already have about 4 of them but pretty difficult to understand, what with Latin, sratchy writing, bad copies etc. Pretty basic from what I can understand. There is an early one in 1606 for a William Bird,Wallasey listed under Cheshire wills in one of the books I have, but is available from Lancashire. It's an Inventory but I haven't bothered as probably won't be able to translate that either. Maybe one day.
The de Waley's were in Wirral in 1170: See St. Hilary's Church and the font and Birkenhead Priory. Much as I would like to claim fame I don't think I dare. I am back to 1817 but not from this area. Although having researched the name in my own way, the first Waley's came from Wales. Philip was one of two who were said to be the illegitimate sons of King Henry first or second(can't remember) and Princess Nesta of Wales.Although the name is also said to be of Norman descent. The two Waleys' went to invade Ireland where the name changed to Walsh. Not long after I think the family were kicked out of Wales and Waley's appeared in Wirral, Lancashire(Walch Hall) Cumbria, Scotland (where the name changed to Wallace- yes the famous Wallace)and Yorkshire at Burgh Wallis. That is of interest as Eleanor sometimes seen as Alinora,ex wife of Robert the Bruce married one of the Waley's from Burgh Wallis. This could indicate connection between Wallace and Waley's. It is also believed by some, that one of the Waley's wrote the 'Guest of Robin Hood'. I think William Wallace WAS Robin Hood........but we shall leave that for another time.
Mullineaux's are definitely from this area. I could rattle on for hours, ever so sorry. Must go and get head rest.

Thanks again.

Ha! Ha! But........( This is probably more for Marty.)

Katheren BIRD married Robert WILLIAMSON
St Hilary's
1580

Robert WILLIAMSON christened
St Hilary's
1593

Robtus WILLIAMSON buried
Little Peover, Cheshire
1598

Hence the transfer of land and probably for a couple of generations with relation to your research.

Strange that Esther Moors (nee Bird) was also buried in Peover, Cheshire.

Also a Katherine Williamson married John Scarisbrick
Bidston
1619.
Don't know where that might fit in yet.could be a re-marriage(although late) or daughter or neither.

I called in at Cheshire Record Office on Thursday to see if there are any surviving deeds for Bird’s House in the Vyner Estate Papers there. In the collection deposited by solicitors Birch, Cullimore & Co there are three surviving leases for the property from the early 18th century that make that period at least a little clearer (but not much).


The first is dated 25th November 1717 and is between Robert Vyner esq and Joseph Bird of Poolton-cum-Seacomb, yeoman. This was a lease for three lives to replace a surrendered lease where one of the ‘lives’ had presumably died. The property is described as:
“All that messuage [ie house] and tenement situate lying and being in Poolton-cum-Seacomb wherein he the said Joseph Bird doeth now Inhabit or dwell” together with a number of parcels of land whose boundaries are given in detail (I’ve missed out most of this, as it’s rather long-winded): (a) “The Housestead, Orchards, Gardens, Barne and Croft abutting north-east on the Town Lane, south-east on the yard lately belonging to Henry Bird deceased, south-west on the Poole, and north-west on the Breck”, (b) Breck Hay, (c) Samsons Butt, (d) Endless Hay, (e) Higher Hay alias Black Hay, (f) Middle Hay, (g) Three Butts, (h) Lower Hay, and (i) Platkin Hay.
Give or take the odd scribal error, these match the parcels listed in the 1665 Estate Survey. The properties were leased at a rent of 18 shillings per annum, and the ‘lives’ enumerated in the lease were Joseph Bird himself, Hesther “his now wife”, and William their son aged ca6 months.

The second lease, for exactly the same property, is dated 6th September 1736, and is between Robert Vyner and Esther Moores, widow, upon surrender of the above lease to Joseph Bird, ”former husband of the said Esther Moores”. The surrendered lease now only had “one life in being to witt the said Esther Moores”, indicating that both Joseph and their son William were now deceased. The lives in the new lease were Esther herself (aged 50), Mary Bird, her youngest daughter (aged 18) and Mary Heyes, daughter of Samuel Heyes of Liverpool, mariner (aged 9).

The third lease, dated 3rd June 1755, was between Robert Vyner and Alexander Talbott or Torbett of Liverpool, mariner, upon surrender of the above lease to Esther Moores, deceased, mother-in-law of the said Alexander Talbott/Torbett (Alexander’s signature indicates that his surname was Torbett, but the clerk who wrote out the lease got it wrong; Torbett has clearly been added to the lease as a correction later). The property appears to have been “assigned” to Alexander by Esther, presumably in her will. The lives listed were Mary Bird, now Mary Monford, youngest daughter of Widow Moores (aged 37), Mary Cheshire, formerly Mary Heys (aged 28), and Ann Talbott, daughter of Alexander Talbott (aged 20). The lease contains two notes certifying that “Mary Cheshyre, late Mary Hayes”, and Mary wife of Daniel Munfort of Backbarrow in the Parish of Coulston, formerly Mary Bird, were both alive and in good health.

Interpreting all of this is difficult as it was not necessary to renew a lease immediately upon the death of the leaseholder (it remained valid as long as at least one of the named ‘lives’ was still living), and the ages of individuals named are often only approximate, but I think that the tenancy of Bird’s House may have gone something like this: The property passed from Robert Williamson to William Bird and Margaret/Margery Bird (m 1661) some time after 1665 – It then passed to their son Joseph (b 1662) on William’s death in 1711 – Following Joseph’s death in 1728, it passed to his widow Esther/Hester (b ca1686), who married William Moores in 1730 – Following Esther’s death before 1755 (quite possibly as early as 1733) it passed to her son-in-law Alexander Torbett, who was married to Joseph and Esther’s elder daughter, name unknown (b ca1718) – Finally, at some point before 1862, it passed to Walter Kirkpatrick…

I think that all makes some sort of sense. Apologies for going on so long, but it's difficult to summarise this sort of stuff without leaving out something vital!

Just as an afterthought, it's most likely that the lease for the property was assigned by Esther Bird/Moores to her son-in-law in 1730 when she remarried; this would make sense if she was moving to Peover to live with her new husband.

The fact that it took Alexander Torbett 25 years to take out a new lease on the property in his name, even though Esther had died in 1733, is not unusual. The fee or 'fine' payable on renewing a lease was often a hefty sum of money, so it was something to be avoided for as long as possible. In Alexander's case the fine was £32; given that the annual rent for the property was only 18 shillings, you can see just what a financial outlay it was.

Marty, what a 'star' you are!

That is wonderful and no apologies needed for the length of content.

Esther and Joseph had only 3 surviving children that I know of. 1 daughter Mary christened 1719, and 2 sons. William (c) 1717 and Samuel (c) 1725.

Everything looks 'boxed off' now I should think, in relation to how the property was xferred etc.
It is surprising how things moved and one tiny bit of info e.g. Esther's re-marriage has brought all this to light.

You have really done well and I for one am very grateful to you. I am sure all the other 'Bird family' addicts are feeling much the same way.
I think that you have earned yourself a good rest after all of that.
but before you do........

Just one thing: If you look at my previous post about
Katheren Brydde (Bird) marrying Robert Williamson. Could it be that the lands etc. originally belonged the the Bird's and possibly had passed to her and thus to Robert Williamson(husband or son) if no other Bird benefactor was alive? I would think it could be that way,although assumptions are more likely to be wrong, which I have found out to my peril more often than not.

Brilliant stuff from start to finish. Geekus is right, you should write a book for the local history societies. They would love it.

It's perfectly possible that Robert Williamson did acquire the tenancy by marriage to Katherine Bird/Brydde; it would simply mean that her parents had no surviving male child to inherit the property. The tenancy could then have passed to their son, also Robert, and if he then died leaving no children, it could have reverted back to the Bird family after 1665. The only problem is finding suitable evidence to prove it!

As for Joseph and Esther's children, there must be another daughter somewhere, as Mary is quite clearly described as their 'youngest daughter' and was not the one Alexander Torbett was married to...

STOP PRESS: I've just had a look on familysearch and there's a marriage dated 22/11/1739 at St Nicholas's Church, Liverpool, between an Alexander Torbot and Sophia Bird...but that wouldn't fit in with the Esther Bird who died in 1733 being the one who was Joseph's widow...

More STOP PRESS: Familysearch records a Sophia Bird being baptised in Wallasey on 21/11/1708, father Joseph Bird.

I saw some of those tenancy leases (albeit a few years ago now) but I'm sure they related to the Bird family and I recall seeing a number of letters indicating that one of the 'Lives' in question (a mariner) had been reported missing, presummed drowned. Maybe there were delays in the transfer of tenancy whilst further investigations took place. If this was Talbott, perhaps he turned up again after being missing some years?

I'm not sure what you looked at, but the only Vyner papers relating to Poulton the staff could find for me were in a single bundle of six leases and counterpart leases, two of which turned out to relate to Poulton Lancelyn. There were no letters at all.

Not all of their papers are fully catalogued. There are numerous bundles of leases.

I know they're uncatalogued, but unfortunately I don't have the time these days to be wading through boxes of uncatalogued deeds, so I had to go for the only box that was listed as containing deeds relating to Poulton-cum-Seacombe. Someone else will have to dig out the rest.

Meanwhile, I've had another play with familysearch and come up with a couple of entries that perhaps make the descent of the Bird's House tenancy a little simpler to follow. Firstly, a Robert Williamson was buried at St Hilary's on 20/09/1669, four years after the 1665 Survey was drawn up. And, secondly, an Esther Mores was buried at St Hilary's on 16/04/1752, which makes the date of Alexander Torbett's lease easier to make sense of.

Hi again,
This all makes loads of sense now and we could go on eternally. Probably best to call this angle of it to a close.
Thank you so much for your time and effort, it's all good fun and so interesting. I am pleased you got a date for Esther's death other than the one I put up.
I am sure many will be delighted to view all of your posts which have unravelled a lot of the mystery.
It was good of you to go to Chester.
Well done Marty.

Of course there's always more.................!

Don't know if you've already seen it, but there are references to Henry Bird living at a house in Poulton in 1650 mentioned in 'The Cheshire Sheaf' series of local history articles.

The article in question is an account of a local dispute concerning the Litherland Family and ownership of Poulton Hall, Wallasey, in 1650. It's in the Cheshire Sheaf for September, 1928 if you're interested [ref 5717]. It's quite a reliable source for dating evidence as the account is drawn from official records relating to the dispute.