Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request Whetstone Lane

Good call Geekus

Possibly coincidence I suppose.

Well there lies the fun in not knowing for sure

Mmmmmmmm!

One thing for sure, at least we have some reasoned possibilities to examine that may well explain the origins of Whetstone Lane. In this regard am reminded too of the saying that 'the most obvious is often most seldom seen' and the name is such a specific one, so any information that links it with local warfare naturally seems an attractive and persuasive theory.

Now here's another curious coincidence relating to the place called Whetstone in Middlesex, seems a local tradition claims the stone "was used by soldiers about to fight in the Battle of Barnet"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whetstone,_London

A battle, fought during the English Civil War, has given rise to a legend associated with a whetstone, now where have I heard that before?

Ha Ha , now then. The plot thickens. There are a few more Whetstone's around the UK, one in Derbyshire I think and others dotted all over the country. Doesn't mean they are in anyway connected tho' .

Yes, agree with you, tantalizing coincidence though.

Attached are some extracts relating to the Civil War from the authoritative book Birkenhead Priory and the Mersey Ferry, by R Stewart-Brown.

They don't throw any light on the Whetstone Lane query, or the Halt Hill-Holt Hill controversy, but are interesting enough in themselves.

Personally, I think relating Whetstone Lane to the Civil War is a tempting and romantic theory, but any connection seems unlikely.

As a child, I trudged up and down Whetstone Lane daily to and from school and even to us youngsters the name was unusual enough to enquire about - naturally, we thought it was a misspelling of 'wet' stone.

But I seem to remember our teachers told us the name came from a large stone in the area that local folk once used to sharpen their knives and other implements.

As simple as that ... or maybe not.

It is indeed an alluring thought to associate the origins of Whetstone Lane with a stone possibly used by forces engaged in the English Civil War. Before rejecting it however perhaps we should mention other possible explanations.

Option One: It could be derived from a corrupted version of West-Stone

Thoughts: As noted by Geekus, that seems undermined by its location. which is not on the western side of Birkenhead. It could of course be a reference to one time boundary stone marking the 'western section' of a land. However do we have any record (paper or archaeological of such a demarcated area?

Option Two: Perhaps it is named after an individual, or someone of a particular trade in that location?

Thoughts: Reasonable possibility, yet according to Dodgson there was a nearby location of Whetstone Meadow dating back to 1824 or even earlier. Is there any record of noted figures in the area bearing the name 'Whetstone' or variants?

Option Three: The name could have it's origins in the Anglo-Saxon term

hwete-, hwet-stân (whetstone)

Thoughts: If so we have a curious inconsistency in that nearby Holt Hill (thought by some to be derived from the Saxon for 'wood') more correctly should have been described in Anglo-Saxon as Hyrst meaning a wood on raised ground, which clearly would have been the case with Tranmere/Holt Hill. So. if one location was accurately named by Anglo-Saxons as hwet-stân (whetstone) why would the same people have not described a hill covered in trees with the adjective (Hyrst) their tongue used for such a location?

We should consider also if this area of Tranmere Hill was a known location of Saxon settlement, or was it Scandinavian? If the latter then we could anticipate local place-names to reflect that (as is the case itself with Tranmere (a seemingly Viking term). However, 'whetstone'in the Old Norse tongue would be something like:

hvessa bjarg (or steinn) which would translate as 'sharpen (whet) stone'

The fact it bears more similarity to the Anglo-Saxon version tends to rule out Scandinavian origins, [i]yet we have the curiosity of a location name in an area possibly under Scandinavian settlement, raising the question why would (what presumably would be a known and important local feature) not be given a Norse description and if so why would that not have passed down through the centuries?

Option Four:

The name is derived from an original stone, located in the area used for sharpening impliments, that became associated, through local tradition, with conflict within the area during the English Civil War

Thoughts:

As with the other options we have speculation only, although there is an identical association ascribed by legend to the stone at Whetstone near London that claims it was used by soldiers prior to the Battle Of Brentford. Of course we are in the realm of romance and foklore here however what we do know is that Birkenhead did witness fighting during the Civil War, would it be too fanciful to consider that a local 'whetstone' may have been used by soldiers at that time?

Shall leave Sherlock Holmes to address that, when the character. in The Sign Of The Four remarked "Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth"

spot on that enjoyed the read is ther any moor on this topic guy n girls

Could they have quarried Lime Stone ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/Z9N5nCzASkeUt2GevCdEZQ

Wirral's geology (non Glacial deposits) is dominated by Sandstone, a suitable stone for sharpening objects, so Limestone is not present.

A really intersting thread, granny and some great contributions. Just a couple of comments.

The origin of the name ‘Holt Hill’ as suggested by Agnes McCulloch in 1991 was ridiculed by William Fergusson Irvine (one of the eminent local historians of the day) a century before. In the introduction to a talk he gave to the THSLC in 1892 entitled “Place Names in the Hundred of Wirral”, he gave examples of what he saw as the trends (at that time) of unscientific and romantic approaches to determining the origin of place names: “No interpretation of a name can be admitted, however seemingly appropriate, until we have first satisfied ourselves of the historical possibility, not to say probability, of the proposed etymology.” He went on to say:

‘While on this subject, it may be as well to draw your attention to the amusing fact that in a recently published memoir of Birkenhead, we find that Holt Hill (so named, we had always understood, from the holt or wood that till recent years clothed its summit) is in reality so called because " the army" of Cromwell (sic) was called to halt upon this " eminence." I may add that the name Holt Hill occurs in a document dated 1327.’

It’s a pity that Irvine does not name the 1327 document. However, his use of scare quotes seems to indicate that he considered the term “the army” was a gross exaggeration and that Holt Hill did not warrant the “eminence” description.

As far as whetstone is concerned, Dodgson says “hwet-stan OE, 'a whetstone'; alluding either to a particular rock or stone, or to a place where such stone was to be got” and gives examples: Whetstone Lane, Whetstonedge, Whetstone Hey, Whetstone Ridge.

I don’t think anyone would disagree that Mill Lane was the lane that lead to the mill, or Manor Lane lead to the manor, or there was a bridge on Bridge Street. Why can’t Whetstone Lane be simply the lane that lead to the whetstone?

Thanks for an excellent contribution, Nightwalker. It shoots down Cromwell's gunners on 'Halt Hill' and gives a simple answer to what has developed into a complicated - but undoubtedly interesting - question.

Why was it called Whetstone Lane? Because there was a whetstone there.