Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral Now and Then A Bryant 1831 Wirral map online

Pehaps, Black Bess related.

Bert, or fellow readers, do you recall from many years ago now a tale about a Black Horse pub somewhere on the Wirral, and archaeological remains being unearthed?

No immediate recollection, interesting though.

Bert, a little bit of digging has suggested that the site in question was in Tranmere, the findings of which may have been recorded in the transactions of the Lancashire & Cheshire Historical Society (circa 1870). Seems a horse burial was found cut into the rock and covered with sandstone slabs. The discovery was not it appears directly under a pub, but not so far removed from the only ale house carrying the name 'Black Horse'. A curiosity, coincidence or ritual association, be fascinating to see if those transactions are still existing.

The Black Horse top of Well Lane, it is said further along Church Road on the corner of Marquis St there is a fenced off triangular grass area it is said Wellingtons horse died coming up Argyle St South and he buried it there.
Hence around it has been bulldozed and a new apartment buildings erected and the shops and houses next to it demolished but if true this is why it cannot be touched.
This is somewhere in a history of Wirral/Tranmere book i was informed some years ago.

Gopher that's fascinating, wonder if that's the same burial? Do you have any more info on that? If it was then would imagine it would be recorded in the aforementioned transactions.

I have lived by there for 29 years and its a well discussed topic amongst the older generation in the area.

Here's the extract from the Transaction, dated 1874 Lancashire & Cheshire Historical Society containing a description of the contents of that tomb in Tranmere. Looks like you can now inform fellow residents the horse in question was more likely to have been linked to William the Third's passing through the area on route to Ireland

I know that piece of land, Marquis St and always thought of it as a little bit of greenery amongst a built up residential area, for the residents to enjoy. Its hard to imagine it hasn't been built on because a horse was buried there, knowing whole graveyards and its occupants have been moved to allow redevelopment. The Duke of Wellington only had one horse of note, Copenhagen, and that was buried on his estate with full military honours. I know its dangerous to dismiss these stories but any other horse that died under Wellington probably ended up in the knackers yard.

A coin found with the skeleton certainly puts a time scale on it, if its anything to do with William the Third, he must have stopped at the hall coming back from Ireland, prior to going at stayed at Gayton Hall, again the only horse of note he was associated with was the white one, which wasn't even his, I think he was only depicted with it in paintings.

No doubting the horse was found but wondering whether it fell down a natural crevice which was covered to stop it happening again, would they prepare a grave for burial in rock, be it a soft rock, like sandstone, which is likely to be in that area.

Get the "Time Team" in. Just tell them it's in Liverpool!

Could the frequency of the pubs in the area being called 'Black Horse', have anything to do with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Dragoon_Guards

Also, could Marquis Street, give a clue to who may have owned the possible horse, or even the name of the horse?

As Bert says, I always understood that William III stayed at Gayton Hall prior to going to Ireland and he sailed from Hoylake.

Granny, an interesting thought, however the frequency and national distribution of the pub name 'Black Horse' tends to suggest other possible associations. It may well be that the pub in Tranmere took its name from the Regiment you cite, do consider though that sometimes such names may stretch way back. Not always for sure, and the findings noted in the Transactions of the Lancashire & Cheshire Historical Society offer credible support that the burial in question relates to the period of William III. He may well have stayed at Gayton Hall, I have not seen the source yet, but of course it's very plausible. As is the alternative that the horse in question could have belonged to one of the King's leading officers?

does any one know the name of the stream that ran through Tranmere on the map? Is that Whetstone lane now??

That map is a cracker
It shows a large part of the map as "Part of Bidston" is/was this correct?
On a side note the wirral looks like frankenstien, lol

At the history fair today

Made up getting these

MAPS OF CHESHIRE 3cds £8 each or the 3 for £20


1819 Greenwood
1831 Bryant


1577 Saxton
1610 Speed

1675 Ogilby's road maps
1777 Burgett's Cheshire


£10
2 cds of The Cheshire Sheaf searchable
(Digital copies of the original publications)


First time on sale The Family History Society of Cheshire
If anyone wants any they'll be at Greasby library 12 April between 10 upto 4pm