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A Bryant 1831
Little is known about this cartographer other than that he produced 12 county maps in the 1820s and 1830s. They were the peak of achievement for the private surveyor, soon to be eclipsed by the Ordnance Survey venturing further into commercial map production. At 1¼ “ to 1 mile, a slightly larger scale than Greenwood’s map, Bryant’s map is very similar in content but carries more detail in some areas. It is found in two versions: six sheets (plain) or, as seen here, two large sheets (coloured), folded in a slip case. Both versions can be seen at the Cheshire Record Office.
also look at the Christopher Greenwood 1819
A Yorkshire surveyor, like Saxton, Greenwood emulated him in trying to produce an atlas of all the counties of England and Wales. He nearly succeeded. Working with his brother John and other partners, first in Yorkshire, then in London, he surveyed 33 English and 4 Welsh counties, most at a scale of 1” to the mile. Unlike Burdett, who had to do all his own surveying, Greenwood had the great advantage of being able to obtain trigonometrical data from the Board of Ordnance. The four sheets of Greenwood’s Cheshire map show more detail than those of Burdett and are noted for the quality of their design and engraving.
Excellent find Derek ! Hours of fun studying that one later. Interesting that Woodchurch Rd (section that is now twixt top of Singleton Ave and Woodchurch Rd Pri.School) is called Slush Lane - with a Slush Lane Cottage too! Never come across that before.
Well spotted, Derek. Like Pinz, I'll have some fun looking around it. Being 1831, it predates some of the Tithe Maps, so is very helpful in dating some buildings. I noticed that the Boode Monument on Poulton Road is on the map, and an area near Seacombe Ferry would be is called 'Codling Gap', predating the use of 'Guinea Gap'. In addition, there a number of footbridges crossing water courses south of Poulton Road, that lead into the north side of Wallasey Pool.
Yes, lots to look at. Some points I've noted: The signal posts on Bidston Hill. The rail line from Flaybrick quarry. No Vyner Rd. North or South. The Ford hill diversion not yet built; Upton Rd. goes down what is now the Thermopylae Pass.
I've now looked at the 1840 O.S. map, which shows the new Ford Hill route, so it was constructed between 1831 and 1840. Can anyone pin it down further?
Intresting that bromborough was considered to have the largest desingnated park area, not quite the same nowadays with the business park and industries.
Looking at the map there is "Cannon Rocks" marked at Thurstaston. Anyone know why? Would there have been cannon there at one time overlooking and protecting the Dee and its ports just as Fort Perch Rock protected the Mersey
Great map Derek.Interesting to see some publichouses/hotels shown such as The Adelphi and at the end of Church Street a hotel which would have been The Birkenhead Hotel owned by the Willoughby brothers who ran the Birkenhead and Tranmere ferries, and also The Black Horse and Ship Inn in Wallasey Village. Great detail. I am enjoying too parts of the Cheshire map such as Tarvin shown in great detail. I have Littler ancestors from there. Big thanks
Does anybody have informtion when the A41 "New chester road" was conceived as an idea and was subsenquently built? Noticed there is no crossing over Bromborough pool on the map where the white stone bridge currently spans the river outlet.
How about Moss cottage on Bidston Moss? What's that all about. There is a Black Horse shown round about where the Magazines pub is. Never heard of that one!
Derek, Great work on sharing that. As an aside, has anyone else noticed the frequency of pubs called 'Black Horse' on the western end Wirral at that period, and presumably going back even further.
Derek, Great work on sharing that. As an aside, has anyone else noticed the frequency of pubs called 'Black Horse' on the western end Wirral at that period, and presumably going back even further.
Pehaps, Black Bess related.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
Bert, or fellow readers, do you recall from many years ago now a tale about a Black Horse pub somewhere on the Wirral, and archaeological remains being unearthed?
Bert, a little bit of digging has suggested that the site in question was in Tranmere, the findings of which may have been recorded in the transactions of the Lancashire & Cheshire Historical Society (circa 1870). Seems a horse burial was found cut into the rock and covered with sandstone slabs. The discovery was not it appears directly under a pub, but not so far removed from the only ale house carrying the name 'Black Horse'. A curiosity, coincidence or ritual association, be fascinating to see if those transactions are still existing.
The Black Horse top of Well Lane, it is said further along Church Road on the corner of Marquis St there is a fenced off triangular grass area it is said Wellingtons horse died coming up Argyle St South and he buried it there. Hence around it has been bulldozed and a new apartment buildings erected and the shops and houses next to it demolished but if true this is why it cannot be touched. This is somewhere in a history of Wirral/Tranmere book i was informed some years ago.
Gopher that's fascinating, wonder if that's the same burial? Do you have any more info on that? If it was then would imagine it would be recorded in the aforementioned transactions.
Here's the extract from the Transaction, dated 1874 Lancashire & Cheshire Historical Society containing a description of the contents of that tomb in Tranmere. Looks like you can now inform fellow residents the horse in question was more likely to have been linked to William the Third's passing through the area on route to Ireland
I know that piece of land, Marquis St and always thought of it as a little bit of greenery amongst a built up residential area, for the residents to enjoy. Its hard to imagine it hasn't been built on because a horse was buried there, knowing whole graveyards and its occupants have been moved to allow redevelopment. The Duke of Wellington only had one horse of note, Copenhagen, and that was buried on his estate with full military honours. I know its dangerous to dismiss these stories but any other horse that died under Wellington probably ended up in the knackers yard.
A coin found with the skeleton certainly puts a time scale on it, if its anything to do with William the Third, he must have stopped at the hall coming back from Ireland, prior to going at stayed at Gayton Hall, again the only horse of note he was associated with was the white one, which wasn't even his, I think he was only depicted with it in paintings.
No doubting the horse was found but wondering whether it fell down a natural crevice which was covered to stop it happening again, would they prepare a grave for burial in rock, be it a soft rock, like sandstone, which is likely to be in that area.
Last edited by bert1; 5th Jan 20138:15am.
God help us, Come yourself, Don't send Jesus, This is no place for children.
Also, could Marquis Street, give a clue to who may have owned the possible horse, or even the name of the horse?
As Bert says, I always understood that William III stayed at Gayton Hall prior to going to Ireland and he sailed from Hoylake.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Granny, an interesting thought, however the frequency and national distribution of the pub name 'Black Horse' tends to suggest other possible associations. It may well be that the pub in Tranmere took its name from the Regiment you cite, do consider though that sometimes such names may stretch way back. Not always for sure, and the findings noted in the Transactions of the Lancashire & Cheshire Historical Society offer credible support that the burial in question relates to the period of William III. He may well have stayed at Gayton Hall, I have not seen the source yet, but of course it's very plausible. As is the alternative that the horse in question could have belonged to one of the King's leading officers?
That map is a cracker It shows a large part of the map as "Part of Bidston" is/was this correct? On a side note the wirral looks like frankenstien, lol
does any one know the name of the stream that ran through Tranmere on the map? Is that Whetstone lane now??
If you mean the stream which ends at Tranmere Pool, that is now Borough Rd. Whetstone Lane is at right angles to it, running down from Holt Hill. The stream was culverted when they built Borough Rd. It used to be called the Happy Valley.
I think it could possibly have originally been called The Birket, which would have made more sense with their being a Birket Pool which it ran into, and a Birket Wood which have been mentioned earlier than 1830s? ordnance survey. Over 100 years ago folk were asking why The Birket in Moreton and Bidston was so called
In her history of Birkenhead, The Headland With The Birches (1991), Agnes McCulloch says the stream was known as The Rubicon, but adds that the origin of the name is obscure.
The original Rubicon was the river in Italy that Julius Caesar crossed in 49BC - his point of no return.
In his 1903 book Birkenhead and Its Surroundings, Henry Kelsall Aspinall mentions the stream, but does not give it a specific name.
On page 2 of this topic, derekdwc mentioned that old maps of Cheshire from 1577 (Saxton) have become available on CD. These are now on regular sale at Greasby library. The maps have been commercially scanned and have been put onto CDs as jpgs by Cheshire Local History Association.
Derek, the link in your opening post to the map, now goes to, https://sites.google.com/site/cheshirelha/ and there is no "Click here to view large Image" Do you know any other link to view the map?
The river which ran through the Happy Valley and was culverted under what was originally named Happy Valley Road but now known as Borough Road, was the Rubicon'
