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OK ,24424m, maybe I have missed some of your points but the threads you write are somewhat laborious to wade through. So here's another one.
Can't agree with your above comment. We are probably one of the most tolerant countries in the world, to every other one, apart from our own. I genuinely believe that we are having far too many changes thrust upon us over a relatively short period of time, and we are beginning to suffer from 'overload' which we are all fighting back at, as it's our natural way of survival.
Our tollerance has diminished considerably. When saying a short period of time, I mean the last 15 to 20 years, continuous change. None of us knows how to deal with it anymore, we are unable to speak openly about so much now, for ethical reasons. We can't critisize, we can't have an opinion over something that is viewed as intolerant or predjudiced by others who may feel offended.People, I am sure sit in their own front room saying some pretty racist comments unheard by the outside world. We are who we are, and too much change, I believe, is leading to bitterness and turning us against our own. There is a name for that I think, but I can't remember it. We are becoming like caged animals. The same applies to most of the european countries. Speak to people from France, Holland, Spain etc. They have very much the same problems for the very same reasons and they too are not heard. We do not hear about what is really going on in those countries, unless we search for it.The people of Greece are in dire straights, far, far, worse than here, we don't hear their voice at the moment becuase it's not chosen for us, that we do.
We are a tolerant nation and also very fair but as posted above, I think we are getting closer the 'neighbour against neighbour' as we have been pushed to the limits by succesive Governments.
By the way, for those who did not vote in the last general election , I feel, should not be making any negative comments about the Government of the day. It was, indirectly, your choice.

p.s Why don't you have a name like 'billy' much easier to identify with, rather than a number, which is another step forward to loosing any identity you may have had? Please can you adopt the more 'understandable' vocabulary in your posts? I can't understand what you're saying!

Also think there are a number of spelling errors in this, but can't be assed anymore to deal with them ! [/quote]


Spot on Granny. I quite agree.

Oh dear

Making it difficult by filling in the blanks ,wrongly! I was absolutely not suggesting that intolerance to immigrants is ok. I was making a point that people behind closed doors are more often than not different people on the outside. Living a lie, you might say for appearances sake, because they have been forced to do so but don't necessarily believe or want to take onboard all that is expeced of them, and definitely not, only the net curtain brigade.
Please don't make accusations about me having a problem with people of a different colour to me.
Do you konw anything about me? You have assumed you know my family tree and you do not know my friends!

Memories of when I was in Greece in the 1970's when the junta were in power. It was a crime to play cards within your own home. You couldn't run to catch a bus, as you would have been thought of as mad. No one whistled as that was another clause in the list of can do and can't do. Intimidation, by the powers that be. In this country, we now have intimidation toward each other and it's not a very nice place we live in any longer.
We have the same here now. If you don't agree with certain social issues you get slandered. If you should dare to say that seeing same sex couples kissing makes you feel queezy, it's twisted around somehow in an attempt to make one feel guilty! If someone feels that benefits are not distributed according to someone elses ideas, people get extremely defensive and quite often nasty. Making belittling remarks about people with manicured gardens and net curtains is typical of those who can not come up with a reasonable comment.Most of us are guilty, even those in high places make mocking remarks making themselves feel better and that is the unfortunate culture we have now. Generally, people are fighting their corner all the time from the poorest to the curtain twitchers who put a lot into communities to help those who are in need , so please don't make them YOUR easy targets! You are just trying to be someone you are not for the benefit of others, which I think is exactly where I started this post tonight.
Anyway Billy, I thank you for making your vocabulary more user friendly, and despite all things I think you are quite human underneath your exterior.

Somehow Billy, I have a feeling I've met you before somewhere?

Sorry CVCVCV, I just had to reply...in the nicest possible way!

This is now

You've got a nerve. choosing what interpretation to put on Granny's comments.
For my part, I believe that there are limits to tolerance and that self-preservation is a deep rooted and valid survival strategy. If I were to believe that thousands of immigrants from Eastern Europe who now have membership of the European Community are about to descend on us in order to take advantage of our benefit system, then I would feel entitled to complain.
So now, come and have a go at me. I will either ignore you or give as good as I get: my choice.

If you have not worked it out yet then let me explain. 24424m is just a "professional" devil's advocate.He will always argue about anything simply for something to do.There is no point whatsoever in entering in to a debate with him as he simply raises different points in every post.Best to ignore him and let him study his own navel.

Granny,

You are quite correct, I don't know anything about you or your friends, some of whom are no doubt black, and I do apologize for making unwarranted assumptions, based on scant information off an internet forum, plus generalizations about what you believe or the content of your character........ it's not a nice feeling is it, to be unjustly labelled pejoratively?

I wouldn't normally get personal on an internet forum, but in this case, I thought it made an important point, as let's be honest, this whole thread has been about much more that benefits cheats, it has been about bigotry, intolerance, assumptions & generalizations.

Back on topic, yes, some people cheat the benefits system, and they deserve to face the consequences of their dishonesty. However, to use that as a starting point in the debate about the level of benefits in general is disingenuous, as I am confident the OP fully appreciates.

Of course there is a separate debate to be had regarding whether it is moral or ethical to further cut benefits, and to consider the potential social fall-out from this intended course of action. I firmly believe this is no more than an ideological attack by the Tories, and to be morally repugnant, as well as counter-productive - you, of course, may disagree.

In conclusion though, what I would urge anyone reading this to consider is before condemning any given group en masse, be it a minority group or benefits claimants in this instance, is whether it is reasonable in all the circumstances to automatically judge the entirety by the actions of those at the margins, or alternatively, whether perhaps unsubstantiated / received information may be clouding the bigger picture. For me, any thought process which relies excessively on the actions of a minority to judge the majority is, by definition, tantamount to prejudice.

After reading the previous post, I am losing the will to live!

At least you managed to read it all Pinz. I fell asleep half way through.

I know the feeling.Just wondering if Grampa George will be able to take it all in,With him having such a short memory.

Thanks for the tip, Salmon; I do propose to ignore him.

Each to their own opinions
Freedom of speech.
You can't have a debate if everyone's on the same side

Why black? Some are green with wings and, just because you haven't seen 'green with wings' doesn't mean they don't exist, Billy.

If you read this forum you'll think all 9483 Registered Users have jobs but if that's the case why do we always hear that wirral is one of the places with the most people on the dole.

trolls if left unchallenged would run amok like a disease...as mentioned by a few on here they already slow down debate, cause running arguments, highlight the divide of opinion and in my opinion, cause people to set their beliefs in stone because of the polarisation they try to cause, perhaps before some people have reviewed the matter enough to actually know what they believe.. all in the 'quest' of proof..when they get proof or find they cant refute any more, they simply exit the thread and start again on another thread...They are the malignant cells of the body forum...whats more they know it and revel in it..Free speech is a commodity that has never really existed..its the unicorn of the equine world..challenge the trolls but not seriously..if they are made figurers of fun they sink into their own clown shoes..

How many large employers have now gone from Wirral.When I left school in 1974 you could try lots of jobs before choosing which one you stayed with.I watched the Tonight programme on ITV 7.30pm
there was a lad on there, trying to find work .I ask you to watch it and then judge people who you consider to be benefit cheats or Scroungers.We are all guilty at times, of making judgements that are wrong,and yes there will be some people who seem to know how to milk the system ,but the vast majority are people who would love to be in work, if we had the manufacturing jobs that were once here and the related business that existed beside them .