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I'am still missing something here DD, has NATO invaded any countries in Europe or threatened Russia, as far as I remember NATO was organised to stop the likes of what is happening in Ukraine, the last big NATO exercise was in 1983 Lionheart a what if scenario, should Russia invade Europe, incidentally the nearest we have come to a nuclear war since the Cuban crisis.

NATO's primary function is to protect America, economically, politically and militarily, all the other members are just shirt-tail hangers.

NATO came into existence for the Korean War which involved North Korea, South Korea, USSR, China and the USA.

You can try and figure out how Korea is part of the North Atlantic whilst the Falklands aren't - whatever answer you find probably sums up everything NATO.

Korean War = United Nations

Yes, but it was still the trigger for the creation of NATO.

What triggered NATO was the failure of the Soviet Union not giving back the independence to countries liberated after WW2. Look at any pre war and post war maps, who is the land grabber?

That's the way I see it bert, they were held under Soviet rule against their wishes to protect the motherland and now Putin wants them back, he is accusing Ukraine of being neo Fascists, yet he is the one acting like Hitler landgrabbing.

On that basis, shouldn't Ukraine give back land to Poland?

Its only in the last couple of years that the UK handed WW2 captured land back to Germany, I think we still have other pockets in Eastern Europe(?).

NATO was formed because of the Korean War after the Soviet Union and America gave back independence.

Putin has made the same three demands for many years, he wants a military buffer zone between NATO and Russia as was promised by NATO, instead of maintaining what buffer zone there was, NATO further encroached towards Russia against their own promise.

Russia quite rightly perceive America as a threat, nobody could say America would not take over Russia given the chance, they are a threat.

I'm not for one second justifying what Putin is doing, but the "West" has not got its hands clean in this matter, a peaceful settlement was there for the taking for years but we chose to not only refuse those terms but carried on with the NATO invasion of Eastern Europe.

NATO was established in Washington, 4th April, 1949, a precursor to NATO was the Treaty of Brussels, 17th March, 1948.
The Korean War was June 25th, 1950 to July 27th, 1952.
Troops in Korea fighting the North and Allies were United Nations.
The United Nations were formed in 1945, initial plans go back to 1939 and 1941.

NATO was set up as a defensive organisation against the Soviet Union Warsaw Pact. It has only seen action once under the NATO Flag, I think it shot down some planes over Serbia (Jet on Jet)

Ukraine applied for entry into NATO in 2008 and was rejected, had they been allowed in, this war wouldn't be happening.

Shelling around a nuclear power site!!
And you say Putin is not mad DD!!!

NATO did not exist before the Korean war, the North Atlantic Treaty in 1949 is not the same thing as NATO, a treaty is not an organisation.



There were no shells fired at any nuclear plant. The cameras from the plant could only show a glow in the distance from the shelling, the building that went on fire was nowhere near the reactors.

Taking over infrastructure is the most humanitarian way for Putin to complete mission, if he wanted to blast Ukraine to smithereens he has the weaponry, so far he has only been using little more than peashooters. It does not pay Putin to be too heavy handed

Down south one of Putin's objectives is to reinstate the fresh water supply to Crimea that Ukraine has blocked since 2014 which has had a huge impact on the civilian population but no affect on Russian military operations there.

If you read the stories in the media today it makes reference to Stanlow Dock workers refusing to offload Russian oil whilst stating that Tranmere Oil Terminal has still been offloading Russian oil. The Russian Oil coming into the Mersey doesn't go to Stanlow, they offload at Tranmere, smaller tankers may still offload at Eastham.

Amazing this 'insane' attack on the plant resulted in no release of radioactivity and the plant continues to run.

I suspect the Russians knew exactly what they were doing, and could safely destroy (A training facility I believe)

I am amazed at how people like cools accept every word of the one sided story we get from western politicians and media.

Quotes,

"NATO came into existence for the Korean War which involved North Korea, South Korea, USSR, China and the USA"

"NATO was formed because of the Korean War after the Soviet Union and America gave back independence"

"NATO did not exist before the Korean war, the North Atlantic Treaty in 1949 is not the same thing as NATO, a treaty is not an organisation"

Make your mind up DD.

There was no reason or nato to exist after the collapse of the USSR. However, by provoking Russia, it has managed to justify its existence.

What we are seeing in Ukraine is the result of this.

I fail to see any contradiction ....

After 1945 North Korea was occupied by the USSR and South Korea was occupied by America

In 1948 North and South Korea were made independent sovereign nations.

In 1950 the Korean War started with support for the North by the USSR and China to invade the South, support for the South primarily coming from America (then later the UN).

NATO was created by the Americans during the Korean War because America saw a weakness in how Europe responded and they wanted to integrate the European military into the American defence and attacks against the USSR. The Korean war ended before they they got NATO fully operational but had the war lasted longer American plans were to use a nuclear attack sanctioned and enabled by NATO as it was unlikely to be sanctioned by the UN.

Its contradictory and historically incorrect, the formation of NATO precedes the start of the Korean War and every historical literature and documentation I have ever read over many years only ever suggested it was formed for the defence of Europe, owing to the activity by the Soviet Union in Europe.

NATO had no inkling the Korean War was about to happen, it came as a complete surprise to the Americans and the majority of the world, In 1948/49 the Americans sent all the troops home leaving only about 400 advisers. The South Korean defence forces were in military terms lightly armed. They were due for rearmament in 1950/51. The communist forces took advantage of this and made their surprise attack in June 1950.

Quotes,
"NATO came into existence for the Korean War which involved North Korea, South Korea, USSR, China and the USA"

"NATO was formed because of the Korean War after the Soviet Union and America gave back independence"

NATO was formed for the defence of Europe and formed prior to Korea.

As for the use of the Atomic Bomb, no idea and probably never will have any evidence it was going to be used for sure, I've never known a conflict involving the USA were those with American bias claim they are going to use the nuclear armaments.

My view on EX's post, NATO is needed more than ever, This bloke Putin is more dangerous than the old Soviet Union ever was, at least the old USSR had a committee, the Polit Bureau who advised the leader and himself consulted them. Putin being a dictator has a free hand, all opposition he's got rid of, very dangerous.