I think we all agree on this, Gaza needs to stop abruptly, before anything escalates further, negotiate the release of captives and prisoners,and allow more aid in and hopefully move forward to something that will be acceptable to all parties, it is at the moment the only possible avenue to stop more slaughter and encourage further negotiations.
Claims and counter claims, I admit I have never looked at the history of it all, however what was done in the past doesn't excuse what started this war, Hamas lit the fuse, they are not stupid they knew what would happen and this is the part I can't understand, why? what gains what benefits? the deaths of thousands of innocent people and the destruction of a way of life, if as I believe it was deliberate then they have achieved their goal they have world support, but the ordinary people of Palestine have paid the price and nothing will change, Hamas are as guilty as Isreal.
I don;t think Hamas have world support, Casper , not at all, but the protests are about the killing of the innocents and particulalry the children through bombing and now starvation. That is the tragedy. However, Netanyahu made a statement on the day after 7th which was a quote from the OT bible . He said it in Hebrew and has carried out the revenge as decreed 3,000 yrs ago. That's the trouble with the Zionists and the Israeli Settlers , their whole aganda is linked to biblical, historical texts. Amalek was the ISraelis name for the Palestinians 3000 yrs ago.:
" Now go and smite Amalek and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”
Add to that the Gas Fields discovered off Gaza, which could explain the building of housing structures going on in Egypt just across the border ... not for the refugees of Palestine, but for the workers in the the gas industry .
Member of Hamas’ Political Bureau Mousa Abu-Marzouk stressed that people of Gaza and Palestinians should know the details of the deal, but PA Minister Hussein Al-Sheikh replied: “Deals are struck between states, not factions.”
The Palestinian Investment Fund owns 27.5 percent of the field. Palestine is a member of the Eastern Mediterranean Gas Forum founded two years ago, along with Israel, Egypt, Greece, Italy, Jordan, and Greek Cyprus.
The Gaza Marine was discovered in the 1990s but Palestinians could not utilize it due to Israeli restrictions.
The field, located 36 kilometers west of the besieged Gaza Strip in the Mediterranean Sea, was developed in 2000 by British Petroleum (BP).
Last edited by granny; 7th Mar 20249:07am.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
I agree the aim of the marches are in protest and the deaths of children and other civilians, but I also think they are being hijacked and used as a vehicle for extremists to gain a following having watched some of the demos some appear more intent on supporting Hamas rather than Palestine, the police actually retreating at one stage, signs of weakness never bode well for future confrontations.
Hams lit a fuse on October 7th, however that is by only picking that one date. Why not choose any other date? Israel performed over 700 raids in Palestine during the year prior to October the 7th. Israel had far more Palestinian captives than Hamas had Israeli. Far more Palestinians have been killed by Israel every year than Israeli have been killed by Hamas etc.
Palestine has been squeezed into two small parts of their own land and every year Israel has been taking more land off them.
International law permits occupied territories to retaliate, I'm sure if we were occupied we would be cheering our resistance fighters. Are you saying the French Resistance were wrong to retaliate against the Germans in WW2?
Choosing that one date is totally misleading of the situation and reality of what is going on and what has gone on.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Israeli warplanes launch strikes on central and southern Lebanon.
Reported on Al Jazeera tonight.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Choosing that one date is totally misleading of the situation and reality of what is going on and what has gone on, I don't think so DD, if it had been an across the border shooting or bombing then maybe yes, but this was a pre planned organised assault noted for its filming of viciousness, sensless murder, rape anrd kidnapp, it was done to agitate a response, and to use your words if it was our armed forces retaliating against that we would be cheering, that is not to say I agree with whats going on, but I understand the reasons for it, hate and revenge are powerful emotions.
To use the reason of what has gone on doesn't excuse the actions of the 7th, if we all believed that we should seek revenge for what happened in the past we all would be constantly at odds with each other. In the context of an occupied country Palestine wouldn't qualify simply because it is controlled by Hamas and not Israel.
Choosing that one date is totally misleading of the situation and reality of what is going on and what has gone on, I don't think so DD, if it had been an across the border shooting or bombing then maybe yes, but this was a pre planned organised assault noted for its filming of viciousness, sensless murder, rape anrd kidnapp, it was done to agitate a response, and to use your words if it was our armed forces retaliating against that we would be cheering, that is not to say I agree with whats going on, but I understand the reasons for it, hate and revenge are powerful emotions.
To use the reason of what has gone on doesn't excuse the actions of the 7th, if we all believed that we should seek revenge for what happened in the past we all would be constantly at odds with each other. In the context of an occupied country Palestine wouldn't qualify simply because it is controlled by Hamas and not Israel.
The actions on 7th were deadful, as we all agree but we know that Hamas is classified as a terrorists organisation , and that's what terrorists organisations do. ISIS the same, Al Qaeda the same, dozens of them. After Arafat's death ,the only reason Gaza is controlled by Hamas is becasue it was elected in an attempt to find liberation . It didn't work, and no elections since then have taken place. That still does not give Israel license to commit war crimes against civilians . If Israel puts two fingers up at the International Laws and gets away with it, then what hope the rest of the world ? Should Russia do the same in Ukraine..... ?
Two BBC articles giving two interesting findings from the United Nations and others. One reports Hamas attack , other reports the Gaza findings... so there is little to choose between Hamas and IDF, they're both thugs and terrorists IMO.
[color:#FF0000]The UN team visited Israel between 29 January and 14 February.
The mission, led by Ms Patten along with nine experts, was not investigative in nature, but designed to gather and verify allegations, the UN said.
It added that 33 meetings were held with Israeli representatives, and more than 5,000 photographic images were examined as well as 50 hours of video footage.
The report said that "despite concerted efforts to encourage" victims to come forward, the team was unable to interview any of them.
Some allegations of rape and sexual violence were "unfounded", the report explained, including the graphically publicised case of a pregnant woman whose womb was reportedly torn open and her foetus stabbed. Other reports could not be verified due to limited imagery, the UN said.[/color]
[color:#FF0000]This latest UN report, which has not been published yet, was based on interviews with more than 100 detainees, part of a group of about 1,000 detainees Unrwa was able to document since December after they were freed from three Israeli military sites. They included people - both male and female - between the ages of six and 82, including 29 children.
The agency explains that this information was obtained during its role co-ordinating humanitarian aid at the Kerem Shalom crossing point between Gaza and Israel where the IDF has been releasing detainees. Information was also said to have been provided "independently and voluntarily" by Palestinians released from detention.
In a comment sent to the BBC it described the allegations as "shocking but unsurprising".
The report said many Palestinians were apprehended in northern Gaza as they took refuge in hospitals or schools or as they tried to flee south to find shelter. Others were Gazans with work permits to enter Israel. They were stranded in Israel when war broke out and were later detained.[/color]
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
In the context of an occupied country Palestine wouldn't qualify simply because it is controlled by Hamas and not Israel.
It is an occupied country and it is totally controlled by Israel.
Israel considers all of Palestine as Israel.
Israel collects most of the tax in Palestine and gives some to the Palestine National Authority (The Palestinian Government).
All trade is controlled by Israel and is highly restrictive.
All utilities are controlled by Israel. The water and sewage systems in Gaza are all but defunct because of Israeli control over electricity. Most water is contaminated.
Building is controlled by Israel (building materials are banned from being imported, permission has to be obtained to build anything)
Israel Police operate throughout Palestine beside the Palestinian Civil Police
Gaza is titled an occupied territory because it is still under Israeli control. and has been under siege conditions (virtually no "legal" trade in or out) since 2007.
Israel openly admits its objective is to kick all Palestinians out of Gaza and to flatten all Palestinian properties. There is literally nowhere for the Palestinians to go, they are blockaded in the Gaza enclave, they have no choice but to stay until they are killed.
We don't do charity in Germany, we pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
My apologies DD yes you are right West bank is occupied, should have done my homework first just wish the whole lot would stop and think for the sake of the innocent, it needs some movement from one or the other to break the deadlock.
Russia is doing the same granny they have committed war crimes, yet there are no parades or mass demonstrations against Russia, Ukraine are fighting a proxy war for Europe.
Russia is doing the same granny they have committed war crimes, yet there are no parades or mass demonstrations against Russia, Ukraine are fighting a proxy war for Europe.
Yes, you are correct, Putin has been accused of war crimes and ICC have issued an arrest warrant. There have been over 70 countries that have protested against the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I'm not sure when the last ones where or even where but some attracted 10's thousands up to 100,000 in Poland, which is unnderstandable.
In defence of Gaza, and the protests pertaining to the war there, where as Ukriane is a massive country, and people can flee, Gaza is under occupation, the size of the Isle of White with a 2.2 million population squashed into small areas in tents , told they are in safe areas and then they are being bombed. That is major war crimes. IMO, but so far nobody has called for Netanyahu to be arrested for war crimes, and USA veto everything that's put before them, and UK continue to abstain. Frightened of not showing loyalty to USA.
I can't understand how USA can call Putin a war criminal and not Netanyahu, whilst giving arms to continue the onslaught in Gaza .
I dare say, this new port will be used for dropping off more military weaponry. Four months ago, Blinken went to Cyprus to discuss a Maritime Corridor to Gaza and I can;t believe it was about providing humanitarian supplies back at the beginning of November...... now it;s going to take a couple of months to build, so we can guarantee the desperation of those Palestinians is not about to end any time soon. Fancy not having a bath for 5 months living amongst sewage and dead bodies rotting under the rubble ! Latest assesment in 7,000 bodies under the rubble.
I haven;t heard anything near as bad coming out of Ukraine .
Last edited by granny; 9th Mar 20249:56pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Russia is doing the same granny they have committed war crimes, yet there are no parades or mass demonstrations against Russia, Ukraine are fighting a proxy war for Europe.
There have been, partly by proxy. The mass demonstrations (of which there have been plenty) have been focusing more on support of Ukraine rather than against Russia https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60536064
I think the difference is that Ukraine have some chance of of forcing Russia to back off because of western military supplies. Palestine haven't got anything to stop Israel. Its the rest of the world that has to stop the massacre. This is Israel's revenge for the middle ages when the Jews were kicked out of nearly every country they were in at one time or another, of course the question should be "why did so many countries independently decide to kick the Jews out?".
France has just said they are going to supply Ukraine with 250,000 suicide-drones, they have been enormously effective against the Russians, and to a lesser extent against Ukraine. The soldiers on the ground have no protection from cheap (hobby type) droves with a grenades attached to them. Some drones are modified to drop grenades, others are modified to simply crash into things or people with a grenade. The soldiers can't run or hide away from them, many drones have infra-red cameras, the survival guidance appears to be to lie down and hope the drone operator thinks you are dead, but the drones go very close to check if they are still breathing. It is the ultimate demoraliser and destroyer. Horrendous loss of life and injuries. It can only give way to a new term "drone fodder".
Interesting quote from Herman Goering shows how people are easily weaponised.
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
just wish the whole lot would stop and think for the sake of the innocent, it needs some movement from one or the other to break the deadlock.
