Forums Forums Local News Police Arrest More Than 300 People In 24 Hours!

Exactly. And as the various databases become more and more interlinked, these mistakes will propagate. Even those who think they have nothing to fear aren't immune from erroneous data - and believe me, there WILL be errors. Too many people with the power to affect YOUR life, even if you have "nothing to hide", regard their systems as infallible. If "the computer says so" then it must be correct. And as this data gets out to a wider audience, whether by being legally sold or by other means, then the potential for harm to innocent people increases. Whether it's just "jobs and opportunities" as Mark says, or whether it's insurance companies finding a way to access DNA data (I notice no-one commented on that point).

But those of you of the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" persuasion, well, just keep hoping it all goes as you think, and that you don't draw the short straw for the data "anomalies". Paranoid? Well, maybe I am, but after 20 years of writing and maintaining large databases for a living, then maybe I have a good excuse. Remember the old truism, folks, "garbage in, garbage out".

My last posting on the subject.


Brian.

There was a guy in Liverpool not so long back who was extradited to Spain as his DNA matched that of a murderer.Even though various people including his boss and doctor could vouch that he was in Liverpool in work at the time of the killing he was still taken to Spain and incarcerated for approx a month before the error came to light.It seems that some one in a laboratory had read the info wrong and thus recorded it wrong. So it goes to show that no system is safe from human error.

Okay then, lets give up all our ways to fight crime, lets give up DNA testing altogether, lets get rid of the CRB, lets get rid of the sex offenders register, lets get rid of ANPR, lets have the criminals run free and do whatever they like because of this fear that people want to instill in people that these databases get it wrong.

Yes they do, everything can get everything wrong, but these databases 99.99% of the time get it RIGHT and put murderers and the like when they should be, behind bars, but oh well, let them walk the streets cos half the time the only concrete evidence is DNA and the databases cant be trusted.

Im not sure how the insurance companies are going to get ahold of police DNA databases either, also that they are cut half their custom overnight because of stupid genetic problems (yeah right, their not in business to make money I suppose). It would be very false to assume the insurance companies would even want access to a DNA database, nevermind assuming they would actually get it!! Doing so, would open up a can of worms for them, and based on the evidence, they could kill 90% of their custom potentially overnight. There is a limit to how far the insurance companies will go, and I think they have all but reached that limit, they are quite happy with only paying out 3% of their revenue.

What I find funniest, is you guys who are seemingly for the abolition of databases and against the use of DNA, would cry for criminals to be jailed on one hand, and then set them all free on the basis of DNA not being reliable enough on the other.

believe what doesnt lie - the evidence!

Hmmmm yet another case where serious and violent offender was only caught upto 18 years after the crime, thanks to DNA...

Another case to increase the argument for a compulsary national DNA database.


I feel it is correct to say, a compulsary DNA database for the police, and this man would have been caught and bought to justice many years ago. These cases keep on cropping up, how many unsolved serious crimes are unsolved because there isnt a DNA match on the current database.

BBC News Report

All right, I know I said I wouldn't post again in this thread, but this story is more than I can stand...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7409593.stm

Interesting to note that your favoured Tories seem to have reservations about it, Matt. The Lib Dems too, and even more so with them, it seems.

And Matt - no more straw men about what I am and am not in favour of **when I've already said the exact opposite** right here in this thread, OK? I *agree* with you that a national DNA database would mean that this particular rapist would have been caught earlier. I just don't think the benefits are worth the cost. That **doesn't** make me in favour of letting rapists go free, or any other piece of bull that you want to dream up and then attribute to me.

And as for all the "I've done nothing wrong, I have nothing to fear" brigade, does the name "Martin Niemoller" mean anything to you all? Do you really want to see a future BNP councillor/MP with access to all your personal data?


Brian.

we just dont have freedom anymore...freedom of speech....big brother is watching us

Did I say I anywhere agreed with the phone call and email database? Because I don't, and that to me is a step too far. And I would like to see them try and implement any sort of email monitoring software on one of my servers. And if they forced it by law on UK datacentres? Id just move my UK hosting servers to my rack in Amsterdam, not a problem.

A nationwide DNA database used solely for fighting crime is completely different to supposed "fighting terrorism" and the like by logging every persons phone conversations and emails.

There is nothing wrong with a nationawide DNA database, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear; there is however problems in the way the government handle and use such data, basically we cannot trust the government. That isnt a flaw with the concept of the system, it is a flaw with country voting in a corrupt, money grabbing government.

OK, so all that you and I disagree on is exactly *what* constitutes "a step too far". I can live with that. It just means that my mistrust of this government is greater than yours - and that's a very sad state of affairs, given you're the self-proclaimed Tory.

I do think you WILL see HMG "try and implement any sort of e-mail monitoring software on one of your servers". though. It's coming, IMO. Even if Cameron gets in (as I believe it's all too likely that he will) it will only be a question of time before he revives the idea.

As long as the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" concept holds sway in the UK, Big Brother V2.0 is on the way. Or have I missed something, and you can tell me a reason why that concept can't be applied to the phone and e-mail database in just the same way that you think it should apply to the DNA database? After all, think of all those criminal gangs that could be using the phone or e-mail to plan their crimes. You could intercept them before they commit the crimes, instead of having to let the crime happen before you can nick them.


Brian.

Simple; DNA isnt an invasion of privacy whereas monitoring and replaying phone calls and emails is. It is also open to far more abuse, and the system is more likely to be hacked for criminal gain.

For example, id be constantly thinking to myself, wow this call/email is being logged when I use it. Which would have an impact on how we use the tools and utilities. The only impact a DNA database would have, is make me, and some potential criminals wary of committing a crime.

Tougher laws and sentencing would be a much better idea for the government before logging emails. Emails can be provided to authorities if they are believed to be connected to a crime already.

Then we just have no more common ground for discussion, Matt. I think samples of your DNA are about as private as you can get.

And yes, I *do* think the insurance companies would love access to a national DNA database. Sure, they make profits on personal insurance at the moment, but as science discovers more links between specific gene sequences and specific diseases, it would be too easy to filter out the "bad risks".

And that doesn't even consider the remote (I hope!) possibility of a bunch like the BNP eventually gaining power. I know, they're a bad joke at the moment, but they ARE making ground. :(( How do you fancy THEM having their hands on a national DNA database?


Brian.

You're points are very valid, both of them. The thing is, I would only be all for a database, if it was controlled and limited strictly to crime fighting needs.

The idea of the government selling on details to insurance companies (I think as much as people think the BNP are likely to gain power, it will never happen, they are not even remotely close to the leading 3 and to be honest, if they were ever voted into power, that would be the final chapter in the death of the UK imho, and I wouldn't be here), first of all, I doubt they would, if they did there would be an uprising, and secondly, the insurance companies would proba bly find it too much haslle anyway, they make something like 94% profit on their revenue as it is, they wont go killing half their custom overnight and therefore half their revenue.

As I say though, both are things to be seriously considered and the government would need to clarify its position regarding such a database, but then neither are as important to me as getting killers and rapists etc off the streets, who wouldn't otherwise because they wouldn't be on the DNA database.