Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral History Neston Collierys

I actually think that you are doing a good thing by creating a single website for Wirral history and also by your postings here. I can see that the website involves a lot of work on your part, full marks to you for that. But, taking this Neston Collieries posting as an example, you are pasting someone else's work alongside your own name. That person has spent months researching and writing the piece.
It is not too difficult to add "The following text is taken from ... "

Doctor Frick,

You say you haven't 'claimed to have written somebody else's work' but you have to admit that you made no attempt to indicate the source of most of the material in your article and were apparently happy to take the plaudits in the posts on 17 May.

Having said that, you did send me a friendly, conciliatory PM -so 'thank you'. While I can't agree with your views on the colliery exhibition at Neston, I do accept that they were honestly held.

Given that you have all the info, I'll leave you to pick out the errors in your article.

Anthony Annakin-Smith

I think most people on WikiWirral are in it to share and enjoy, not for "kudos". Likewise we know we are rank amateur historians, unlike many proffesionals who have made huge gaffs at times and yet still maintain their eminent status.

We thank people for finding and sharing information as well as creating it.

I am sure you are fully aware that over 60% sources turn out to be secondary and so the majority of primary sources are never recognised.

If Dr Frick had acknowledged the libraries as the source he would have being doing a huge injustice to the real sources of information, I am sure that very little if any of the library work was by recollection and most of it was sourced from other books and articles, who in turn were quoting from.......etc.

If you don't know the primary sources, what is the point, why acknowledge yet another copy? Do you have to acknowledge all copies?

Thanks Greasby Lad. Your support is appreciated.

I agree with both the positive and negative things you say about the site. At the very least I think an acknowledgement of sources is appropriate. (Having said that, I don't want to get too 'precious' about all this - all historians build on the works of others. But it did rather rile me after the previous critical comment about the exhibition.)

Thanks too for your kind comments on the exhibition. It's created an enormous amount of interest and we've had a lot of very positive feedback - which makes it all worthwhile given that it was put together by a band of volunteers.

Incidentally, if any reader is interested, there is a service to remember those who worked (and sometimes died) at the collieries next Sunday (24th May), 3 p.m. The venue is - unusually - the beer garden of The Harp pub in Little Neston.

Totally agree DD, Dr Frick is doing a good job and may long it continue.

i dont think it really matters who did the research in the begining, the fact that some one else has the sense and time to cut and paste all this infomation to put on wiki to share with everyone is doing a great job. The history section is really great and i would like to say thanks to everyone who contributes to it.

I was hopeing to view the Mine history display, but when i arrived at the Library it was er-well shut !. When i lived in the area it was open all hours !!!.

Oh well better luck next time !.

Hi Diggingdeeper,

Actually, as author of much of the written material on display, I can trace pretty well every statement back to a primary source - a letter, newspaper, deed, public record, map etc. (I am sure the writers of the other material on display could do the same). Any good researcher will always go to primary sources for the important information, provided such sources still exist. Secondary sources are notoriously unreliable. Details of all primary (and secondary) sources used in my colliery research are in the library.

Having said that, I agree with your general point that it is not possible every time that someone writes something to acknowledge every source of information used (except in formal research). If bits of the library exhibition find their way into the 'general record' without acknowledgement I have no problem with that (but if I writer is drawing substantially on another source it's usually polite to acknowledge it; this also gives the reader the chance to delve deeper if he/she wishes). However, my original point was simply that Doctor Frisk appeared to have drawn extensively on our research whilst at the same time criticising it for being a 'let down'. I couldn't see how he could have it both ways. He has since contacted me to explain that the exhibition was not what he'd been led to expect by third parties - so I'm happy to accept that particular issue as closed.

Going back to primary/secondary sources, it is always rewarding to go to primary sources if you have the time and inclination. If you want me to point you towards some of the main ones so you can do your own research into an area of interest I'm happy to do so.

As iv said over & over, the site is not finished and it WILL contain sources for all material used. When i post stuff on wiki its nearly always from another source, i just put it on for people to learn from and enjoy as i do. If its something i have written or photos i have taken, i clearly state that; so basically unless i say i have written it then its not mine.

I am no historian and im not trying to annoy people by copying and pasting different articles and pictures; and i have certainly NEVER claimed to have written somebody elses work. There are many history websites out there that do not referance the sources but this does not claim that they have written the materials. That said, there is a lot i have written on my site and a lot of photos that i have taken; so its not just a copy and paste site.

I will continue to work on Old Wirral and continue to post on Wiki and i hope that those of you who do view the subjects i post, will continue to enjoy them.

Doc

Two people both passionate about the local history . May i suggest that you both pool your knowledge and experiences to further your endeavors, its a logical progression.

You should both be commended for your work and EPC for keeping a library resource.

pace

I paid a second visit to the Library this morning (shut last week), and i thought it was worth the time to stop and have a look.
I thought the misshap list was very interesting giving the names and adresses of a few of the people who where injured, it was also nice to see that some of the people in the pictures had names given to them, it seems to be forgoten nowadays that in a lot of cases the pictures where taken because of the people in them and the background was of no interest to the photographer.

emmm mines in Neston ??

When I was working on the old rectory of St. Hilary in Wallasey, it was rumored that Lady Hamilton used to slip through the tunnels from Neston to enjoy a pint in the Cheshire Cheese.

Tunnel from Neston to Wallasey ?????? ermmmmmmmmm ?

Yes, go down near The Harp Pub, when you get to the Marsh turn right and their is some of the exsisting [censored] from them days.