Just wondering if the Haymarket tracks eventually followed the course of the Bridge End Brook and under the bridge in Bridge st by the Old Colonial
I think you're right. If the Bridge End Brook followed Conway St. and turned Northish between Camden St. and Adelphi St. then it would coincide with the Haymarket-Docks line from about Price St. to the Four Bridges.
Last edited by bri445; 22nd Mar 201110:27pm. Reason: Map added
[/quote] WRS McIntyre writing in 1948: "From the marshy land near the present Park Entrance, a stream wound along the course of what is now Conway Street, turned between Camden Street and Adelphi Street, and emptied into Wallasey Pool by Bridge End Farm"
P.S. I got that route from nightwalker's post, above.
Article written 2008. "Jenny Whalley is a landscape archaeologist who showed us what must be just the tip of the iceberg of ancient carved stones on Wirral; images of bears and interwoven Celtic knots abound. One Viking stone was found recently in the rockery of a private garden; an earlier Saxon stone of a man with crossed keys is believed to have fallen from its bridge over the river Fender near Landican. Where is it now? Thurstaston Common is a good place to search for many individual carvings, including a Celtic stone head, revealed as a carpet of heather and peat was peeled back. Local folklore has named ThorÕs Stone ÔFair MaidenÕs HallÕ Ð a reference to Norse goddess Freyja. In recent years local children have taken part in an enactment of the ancient spring festival of ÔThe Marriage of the Man and the MaidenÕ after beheading the ceremonial Hawthorn (or Green Man)"......... Stone.http://www.wirralsociety.net/pub/wm.sum.08.pdf
There is also a small river behind the Bassett Hound, Thingwall.Not sure if this is Fender or Birkett.Flows down to the fields towards Landican or Storeton direction. Maybe some help.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Just one more bash incase you have not found what you are looking for yet. Wirral.gov.uk Find 'Cycle Map of Wirral'. It can be zoomed in on and shows so much info it's brilliant! The rivers are clear all over Wirral. I believe the Saxon bridge is nothing but a post now. Good Luck.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect. ~Chief Seattle
Granny, Thanks for your advice/information, there is much of Wirral's distant past that remains unexplored or valued, most certainly the period when it was peopled by 'Celts'.
Interested in finding out when and why the name changes to the rivers, brooks, etc.
While researching something else I’ve come across this reference to the naming of the Birket in a paper presented to the HSLC in 1922 by E H Rideout which sheds some light on Bert’s question. Without going through all the posts, I’m fairly sure that there was a suggestion that Ordnance Survey would involve the local population in naming rivers, landmarks etc. This seems to be borne out by Rideout’s research: the original name of ‘Main Fender’ perhaps obtained from the locals of Meols and Moreton and subsequently changed after representations from the local gentry?
The Birket Regarding the name of this stream, called by Mortimer "Birken" and by later writers "the Birket" there has been a considerable amount of controversy. It has been asserted by some that the name "Birket" was invented by the Ordnance Survey. So far from this being the fact, the stream was called, on the one-inch map, 79, N.E., dated 1839, "the Main Fender" but on a subsequent edition in 1872, the stream is named the "Birket."
On enquiry the Director General of the Ordnance Survey informs me that the name "the Birket" was given to the stream flowing from West Kirby to Wallasey Pool, on the authority of the Rev. W. C. Graham of Bidston; Mr. Sutton of Reeds' Farm; and of Mortimer's History, previously mentioned. Furthermore, the name was again authorised at the time of revision in 1908 by Mr. Peter Stephen, of Mollington, who wrote: "The Birket was diverted when Wallasey Pool was made a dock in 1842, since which date it follows a straight exit to a great culvert under Beaufort Road."
In a "Rental of the Earl of Derby's property in Wirral, 1521-2," printed in the Cheshire Sheaf (3rd Series, iv, 37), are mentioned "Certain profits issuing from a fishery in the water of Ayne, called Dowble Dyke." Mr. W. F. Irvine, who printed this document, considers that the word "Ayne" is the Celtic word "afon or avon," meaning water; and that this name here refers to the present Fender or to the Birket. Which of these two streams bore the name "Ayne" is doubtful, since both of them met at the " Dowble Dyke," marked on the original inch Ordnance maps as " Old Bank."
I have heard that skulls, etc., were dug up in the space between these banks, but have no confirmation of the report; neither is there any record in the name-book of the Ordnance Survey.
From the book "Waterside Wirral" ISBN 1 872568 44 0 £4.99
Some useful maps and info. but not very certain about sources (where streams end is usually fairly clear). Nice pictures.
River Mersey: "The Mersey is formed from three tributaries: the River Etherow, the River Goyt, and the River Tame. The modern accepted start of the Mersey is at the confluence of the Tame and Goyt, in central Stockport, Greater Manchester. However, older definitions, and many older maps, place its start a few miles up the Goyt; for example the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica states "It is formed by the junction of the Goyt and the Etherow a short distance below Marple in Cheshire on the first-named stream." The 1784 John Stockdale map shows the River Mersey extending to Mottram, and forming the boundary between Cheshire and Derbyshire".
River Dee: "Source - location slopes of Dduallt above Llanuwchllyn in the mountains of Snowdonia - coordinates 52°49′56″N 3°45′56″W"
Last edited by chriskay; 26th Feb 20125:36pm. Reason: Quotes from Wikipedia
Hi, I might be able to add a little to this debate. Woodchurch has always been assumed as originally being attached to Landican for several reasons. Firstly, Woodchurch is not mentioned in the Domesday Book but Landican is, with a recorded priest. There is no church at Landican, and since the 'Church of the Holy Cross' is known to have existed in Saxon times then it is suggested that this was the Domesday reference. Secondly, the first mention of Woodchurch is in 1092, 6 years after Domesday was published. Thirdly, the old lane at Landican is running in the general direction of the church (redirected in 1934 when the municipal cemetery was created). As for the origin of the name Woodchurch we can again look to the Domesday Book for indirect evidence. Like many other settlements, this is the first mention of Landican, where it was originally called 'LLANDECHENE'. The origin of Llan is undoubtadley Old Welsh for church. The secons element 'dechene' may be Old French, possibly meaning 'of the wood'. That would equate to the 'Church of/in the Wood, or Woodchurch.
