Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request Photographs of Birkenhead

Erainn, you have made the mistake of assuming i was replying to your post, if i was, i would have included your name or replied via the quote button, this assumption i think has come about because of one word or at least the extension of it.
However i stand by my views, not a distortion of anything, just my views and opinion. related only to Lyn's first few lines in her post.

No disagreement they are your views, given also they followed immediately my original post, referred directly to content I had presented, not that unreasonable to connect them with what I had written. However, your remarks and reasoning were fallacious, in that they misrepresent what I had written and promoted straw-man arguments.

Who is this clown? Says lives in London so says it all really. Loves the sound of his own voice I think!

Erainn, one post always follows another, its unavoidable that sometimes misinterpretations can follow, using ones name or the quote button at times is a valuable tool, nothing i have written is fallacious or comes under the straw man category when referring to demolished streets as mentioned in the first post. Can i surgest you move the debate on and then people will contribute as is their want.

Your comment to bert about a “self-serving line of misrepresentation” is hardly reason and mature debate and I find your dissection of his post extremely patronising. This is not a debating society for academics and pedants but a place where personal views, comments and reminiscences can be aired. It is rare that any post on Wirral History sticks strictly to the original thread and that is what makes it so enjoyable and unpredictable. What could have been an interesting thread has now turned into a slanging match about what comments are or are not acceptable and unfortunately that’s all down to you.

i dont agree bert,i lived in marion street, it was a great place to live .the area was the heart of the town. large areas are regenerated all the time were our house was is just a car park ,the old bricks are still there.is that progress? the boulevard is a plastic mess. the community has gone.a little thought would have gone a long way.

Well, your comments are noted, however your loyalty to a few other posters here, who seem to specialize in herd instinct, has blinded you to a couple of basic points. Firstly, my comments were related directly to Bert's misrepresentation of what I had actually written, that reasonable response on my part, falls within the operating remit of the forum. Secondly, the veiled personal attacks were not instigated by myself, but directed in my direction, I have far too much Irish in my make up to permit that to go unchallenged, least of all from those with an inferiority complex So if anyone could be considered to have dragged this thread into the gutter find a mirror and share it with one or two others here. Meanwhile as I stated to you before if you wish to have a serious and mature exchange on the subject I am happy to contribute.

I share your position on how insensitively the town was ripped apart in the name of 'development', ties and friendships which had formed over two or three generations were thrown to the sky, people relocated to either high-rise alienation or estates that developed a number of serious concerns. Streets and housing, that were far from the medieval squalor so graphically sketched by Bert, were often replaced by car parks, or left as wasteland. In that sense, it is no exagerration to describe that process as removing the heart and community from the center of the town. Nothwithstanding the obvious benefits of improved housing and facilities, the planners, in the scramble to 'develop' the town, created a less than pleasurable legacy, that leaned more towards the needs of commerce, than providing a quality living space.

With the mass demolitions that have happened, the area is becoming more like pools of populations. The mass flattened sites and this pooling seems to be a factor in destroying the community as a whole.

Erainn, it was hardly medieval squalor but squalor it was, i don't know what era you're going back to, in the 50s and the house i was born into was in an area of housing unfit for human habitation, ok it put a roof over ones head, but thats about all.
Our relatives all lived around each other, if not in the same street then the next one or the one after that. They all moved away within 12 months of each other, I don't recall then or on growing up during discussion on the old place any opposition or anyone opposing the move, in fact quite the contrary, everyone was glad of it, in those days , people harassed the local authorities to get a move, i can tell you without fear of contradiction, no one was sorry or reluctant to leave those dwellings. As i said earlier, most people put the so called community spirit to one side in favour of better living quarters.
I'll stand corrected if need be, I don't recall vast areas of land in Birkenhead where redevelopment could have been done on the scale of the Woodchurch Estate etc to build and meet the housing requirement. So its no wonder communities that people long for were destroyed. In all the years of discussion on this subject with my parents who were obviously adults at the time of our move, never did they ever have a bad word for the people they lived amongst, only the property they had to live in, i like others can understand the feeling of loss of a community spirit but i feel most people gladly put that aside for a more healthier and better standard of living.

Erainn. As the thread seems to have got back on track, I won't bother replying to the rather bizarre post addressed to me. Instead I will slink back to my herd (avoiding mirrors on the way) and let you superior beings carry on.

and not one photograph of birkenhead after all that ha

That may well be your personal experience, it does not though remove the reality that the town was effectively scarred by insensitive development, that in many cases replaced houses and communities with high-rise deprivation, waste-land or car parks. Within that context, the original comment of this thread has validity, much has been lost and questions do indeed remain as to the value or otherwise of the effects of such 'development'.