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rocks #536844 22nd Jun 2011 11:34am
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The 1690s is certainly the correct decade - the old barn (now demolished) that belonged to the house also had a datestone bearing the same initials and a date of 1704.

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rocks #537317 22nd Jun 2011 10:32pm
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ooo its all very interesting and the only info the owner has on the house is what he reads here so the more we can find the better! i wonder if the date stone from the barn will be knocking around the house or garden? i will ask and have a mooch when im next there!!


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RUDEBOX #537353 22nd Jun 2011 11:12pm
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If it turns out to be the 6th August I'd like to come and lend a hand - can't do heavy lifting, but have done a fair bit of decorating prep etc in my time. Looks like there's a LOT of work to be done - and the pictures were fascinating. The cellar looks like some sort of art installation...!

RUDEBOX #537360 22nd Jun 2011 11:17pm
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Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
Who wants to 'in' in a few weeks time? We just confirming with Roger.
the 1st or 2nd Saturday in August-
Rudebox
Plusone
T.C
Rocks
Bezzy and The Flapjacks wink
Greenwood

Anybody else? Add your names. laugh


Last edited by RUDEBOX; 22nd Jun 2011 11:20pm.
rocks #537545 23rd Jun 2011 10:38am
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Great work guys an girls, well done. smile

#537554 23rd Jun 2011 10:55am
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Originally Posted by Frog_Eyes
Great work guys an girls, well done. smile

thanx we work well as a team! cant wait to go back smile


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rocks #538309 25th Jun 2011 1:54pm
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Well, it's anybody's guess! The following is the offical text from the listed buildings Heritage Gateway, which as you can see says 1627, but in the book it refers to, compiled in 1975, the text reads "House built of coursed rubble and dated 1621 over the door.." Personally I think it's 1621 because the first and last digits of the date are clearly the same and it can't be 7627!

SJ 39 SW WALLASEY LIMEKILN LANE
(west side)
3/48 The Old House
20.5.52
- II
B
House. Lintel inscribed: "W M/1627" (William and Mary
Bird). Stone with slate roof. 2 storeys with attic, 3
bays. Coped gables with kneelers. Single-chamfered-
mullioned windows of 3 and 5-lights with label moulds to
ground floor, 3:2 + 2:1-light windows to 1st floor. 2
gabled 2-light dormers. Entrance has large inscribed
lintel with label mould. Returns and rear similar. Rear
has brick, but that to right partly of stone. Interior not
inspected but described in E. Mercer, English Vernacular
Houses, pp 142

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Oh, for a tame dendrochronologist, eh?!

rocks #538777 26th Jun 2011 6:12pm
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Shame the date is a mystery,will be nice when its renovated.

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I think that it's unlikely that the date is 1621 for the reason I've already mentioned - the old barn that belonged to the house apparently bore an identically-styled datestone bearing the date 1704, and it's unlikely that two such similar carvings would have been done over 80 years apart (for drawings of the two house plates - albeit not very good ones - see Woods & Brown The Rise and Progress of Wallasey, p163). I think that what appears to be the bottom stroke of the '2' is actually just a damaged area where a chip of sandstone has weathered away. If you look at the following photo you can see that there's an equally deep area of damage next to the top of the '6', though this one isn't so obvious on Rocks' photo.

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I used invert colours on both pics and as Marty says it looks like horizontal damage on the nine, i think it shows better on Rocks pic that it not a 2.

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rocks #538881 26th Jun 2011 9:16pm
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Looking at Bert's inverted colours (particularly in the first photo) my money is definitely on 1691.

rocks #538887 26th Jun 2011 9:18pm
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id defo say its 9...pity there arnt any records of the stone mason who done it as it may have been recorded on a receipt


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rocks #539053 27th Jun 2011 11:54am
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I agree that 1691 seems to be the most likely interpretation of the date, which fits in well with a date of 1682 for the marriage of William and Mary Bird, if that date is correct.

What the date 1691 actually refers to, however, is a different kettle of fish as 'house plates' such as this are notoriously difficult to interpret. It's unlikely to be the original date of construction, as stylistically the house appears to me to be more early- to mid-17th century. It may refer to a major rebuild or renovation, or, alternatively it may relate to some long-forgotten family event, such as the birth of a first child. We'll probably never know.

On a more positive note, I have found some documentary evidence connecting the name of William Bird with the house in the 17th century, which I'll post as soon as I get the relevant scans sorted out. Keep watching this space...

rocks #539158 27th Jun 2011 4:03pm
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marty you should add your name to the list to help out so you can come and see the date stone for yourself, its an interesting story isnt it? my dad said sometimes the date stones arnt done the same time as the house too, it could have even belonged to their previous house and they stuck it above the door when they moved in haha
glad your trying to find stuff out thanks wink


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