Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral History BIRDS HOUSE

Thoughtful words Smartchild. Bless!

So have we got any further? Well, for myself yes, you have all been really informative.Lots of interesting stuff. At least I know who to get in touch with if I have anymore queeries. The thing is,this topic will no doubt continue for a long time. It's a bit like smoking..can't give it up.(well actually I have)
Thank you all.

Following on: Would this indicate that Williamson's Croft had passed to Bird's prior to 1660?

Transactions of the Historic Society of Lancashire and Cheshire for the year .. (Volume 43-44). (page 5 of 29)

The Rogation Procession. 45

dropped before the Restoration, when a Puritan
minister would have viewed with horror the
"superstitious gadding" and praying at crosses.


The Rogation Procession. 47

" they met there and proceeded thro' the fields
" towards Pooltown, and about the middle of " Williamson now T. Bird's Platkin Hey read
" Epistle and Gospel." The route followed in this
section of the procession still exists — alas ! how
changed — in a path running from near Seacombe
Church to Poolton, and lying between the Poolton
road and the Pool.

The Restoration of the English monarchy began in 1660

Difficult to say Gran. If you've got a copy of 'The Rise & Progress of Wallasey' have a look in Appendix III. There's quite a bit of info on the Rogation Procession in there, and it suggests that this custom may have continued (albeit in a diluted form) into the 1670's.

Is there any evidence that the Platkin Hey, was the same field as Williamson's Croft? Maybe have a look in the Wirral edition of Place-names of Cheshire by J. McNeal Dodgson for old field-names and see if you can find further clues there.

It wouldn't surprise me though if the political and religious upheavals of the period in question didn't have some bearing on the situation.

...looking back on this thread at the 1665 survey put up by Marty, the schedule lists half a dozen field names tenanted by the Williamsons. One of these fields is given as Platkin Hey but, interestingly, it does not mention the piece of land called Williamson's Croft even though it features on the map.

Perhaps if the original survey does date back to 1656 rather than 1665, something may have happened which saw the Williamson's ousted as tenants and replaced by the Birds. We know, for example, that William Bird became churchwarden in 1658, but that could be just a coincidence.

There was William Bird Church warden in 1651,so maybe his son William continued after him as Church warden.

I didn't know whether the paragraph above was related to the time of happening or if it was taken from Robinson's account of which, at the moment, I am not sure when he wrote his accounts of the area.

Looking at the emapping for Victorian Cheshire, the Bird's owned a whole heap of land and property. One would wonder where it all transpired from. Bird's of a feather....!

I will try to have a look at 'Place names of Cheshire'.

Sorry, the second maps's not very clear, but Williamson's Croft is marked with a small number (1) - it's listed as the 'house Stead, and Garden' in the accompanying schedule. It would have been called Williamson's Croft simply because the house on it would have been referred to as Williamson's.

Thanks for that Marty! Can't you just write a book for us and put us out of our misery?

I do have some more info from the Kingston/Vyner Survey, but I'll have to post it later.

You probably know more than I do Gran, I only got my info from 'The Rise & Progress', and it's a long time since I last read it properly. I hope Marty posts his info soon, as I worry your heart can't take much more of this.

I’ve had another look at Thomas Taylor’s Survey of Bidston Manor with regard to the date, and the main map showing all the manorial lands is clearly dated 1656. Several of the larger scale maps are dated 1665, whilst others, including the one of Poulton, are undated. I think the correct date is generally assumed to be 1665 because Lord Kingston, for whom the survey was supposedly carried out, didn’t purchase the Manor until 1662.

The survey volume also contains several pages of valuations, together with various amendments and marginal notes, added at later dates. Most of these appear to have been written by Robert Vyner MP (one memorandum begins with the words ‘I Robert Vyner...’), to whom the Manor passed following the death of Sir Robert Vyner in September 1688.

One page is headed “My Computation of the Value of the Severall [ie separate] Tenements if out of Lease allowing for Taxes which the Tenant pays & all other deductions made in 1719” to which has been added “& reviewed in 1736” in a distinctive shaky handwriting. The only entry for Poulton-cum-Seacombe is the name ‘Joseph Bird’, which has been subsequently crossed out and had ‘Hester Moor’ written alongside it. The words ‘now Torbet Walter Kirkpatrick’ have then been added underneath by the person with the shaky hand, presumably in 1736. [The word Torbet is uncertain; as I say the handwriting is very shaky and difficult to read, but that’s what it looks like.].

A further section is headed “Old Rents chief rents & Cottages” with “Old Rents reformed in 1762” inserted below. Here under Poulton the name ‘Joseph Bird’ appears followed by ‘Walter Kirkpatrick’, written by old shaky hand, and ‘now Gordon’ written in yet another hand.

Three more pages follow containing a similar “Computation of the Value of the Several Tenements...” this time made in 1762. Here under Poulton the only name is that of ‘Walter Kirkpatrick’.

I’m not exactly sure how to interpret all of this, but I’ll have a go. It looks as if at some point tenancy of the Vyner lands in Poulton passed from William Bird to Joseph Bird (possibly with other Birds in between). Then in about 1719 or shortly thereafter the tenancy passed to Hester Moor, possibly only briefly, before ending up with Walter Kirkpatrick, who was the tenant in 1736, when the Valuation was reviewed, and still there in 1762, when the second Valuation Schedule was drawn up. William Kirkpatrick was then followed as tenant by ‘Gordon’, possibly the James Gordon who appears in the Table of Reference in my earlier post with the maps. All this is pure conjecture, of course, but at least we have some more possible names of tenants for the property!

One interesting point is that the Bird family’s tenancy seems not to have lasted much longer than a couple of generations; I envisaged something more akin to 150 years or so, given the property’s usual name. It is possible therefore that the name Bird’s House is of fairly recent origin, possibly originating with the realisation that the initials WB on the lintel stood for ‘William Bird’. As I’ve mentioned the property is also simply known as the Old House, so it would be interesting to find out when the name Bird’s House/Tenement first came into common usage.

Well it will take me a week to digest all that, but how interesting.

I believe the Joseph Bird you mention could be Yeoman of Poulton married to Ester. Son of William and Margaret Bird(nee Gill) of Poulton. He was christened in 1662 and death date 16/1/1728. So that could fit nicely.

That William is the son of this next William.

William Bird. Married Alice Shurlock. 30/6/1628 I Believe this William to be Church Warden. Died 1663 Alice Died 1655.

NOTE: WILLIAM BIRD AND ALICE WERE MARRIED ON THE SAME DAY AS MARGARET BIRD AND THOMAS SHULOCKE

Margaret Bird. Married Thomas Shurlock. 30/6/1628

Margaret and Thomas died same day of plague in 6/12/1651.
9 members of the same family within 10 days

It says Quote " These persons dyed in the years of our Lord God One Thousand Six Hundred ffitee and on. Bye mee William Bird"
How sad.All his sister's (I assume) family in 1651

So it must have been William of William and Alice.

This is what I posted the other day but have messed around with it a bit.

Marty, do have a library at the side of your armchair?
I think you are right about Bird's House being originally the Old House, but it probably didn't have a name at all when it was first built.
Got to go and digest now.

I was hoping that Joseph Bird would turn out to be the son of William and Margaret, because, of course, W & M B are the initials carved on the lintel of the house. This would fit in with the William Bird in the 1665 Vyner Survey who became the tenant of the property after Robert williamson.

One thing I did forget was to give the actual property valuations given by Robert Vyner in 1719. The main entry, where the name of Joseph Bird is crossed out, is valued at £16, and undoubtedly includes the house in parcel 1 of the Survey map. The second entry, under 'Old Rents chief rents & Cottages', that ends with 'now Gordon' is only valued at 16 shillings; I think this refers just to the last three fields in the Survey schedule, numbers 8,9 & 10, which appear to be assigned to James Gordon in the Table of Reference.

It's very interesting stuff Marty. Well done to you and Granny for all your research. I'm sure you've given the owner plenty to think about, and I wasn't joking when I said you ought to do a book on all this!

Amazing what there is to find.

Esther Bird married William Moors in 1730.

Her dead husband Joseph was the cousin of that chap Nehemiah,Yeoman of Poulton..born 1685.

With Marty's unbelievable input everything has somehow got a result, or at least the best we can hope for.

My heart is doing fine thanks Geekus it's just my head that's messed up. For the record I'm not as old as I may sound!!

Does anyone know anything about the Mullineaux's!Only joking. My ancestors were Bird's ,Mullinueaux's and Walley's! I haven't even started on them and don't think I want to.
Thanks so much for all the invaluable info and help which in all honesty I would never have had the knowledge to track down.
You are an amazing pair and I've just unearthed my 'Rise and Progress' so watch this space!

That is interesting; it didn't occur to me that Hester/Esther Moor(s) might be Joseph Bird's remarried widow! That explains a lot. All we need to know now is whether Hester/Esther died some time between 1730 and 1736 to give us a possible date when Walter Kirkpatrick took over the tenancy...