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12 tribes of Israel was political partitioning not religious surely?

Israel was the name given to Jacob by God, and the 12 tribes were descendants of Israel(Jacob).Originally the division of the Jewish people, and yes it is pertaining to religion and the exodus from Egypt.Only two tribes left apparently, one is the tribe of Asher, and I don't know which the other one is.

Off topic, but you did ask.

This is interesting giving an insight into 'freemasonry' and the twelve original points.

http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Art...es/tribes_of_israel/tribes_of_israel.htm

I named Asher (above) and it was wrong.

Still can't understand about those who don't believe in a God, and consider Him to be an imaginary friend of others, can be a Free Mason ?

Thanks for your earlier answers Tait1969, you have worked hard with us all, we aren't an easy bunch

To all those who have posted, asked questions and provided additional links- Thanks for your input and interest!

As i said at the beginning of my thread a lot is often written and linked to Freemasonry, some accurate and some not! Some positive and some negative.

To remind those who are reading. From my own personal perspective i have had nothing but positive experiences since i joined freemasonry. I personally have come to recognize a lot of the good that Masonry brings to society!

To note. Many of the sites and information linked to freemasonry often come with a disclaimer (as was the case in the last link) and for confirmation it reads as follows:

"THIS SITE IS NOT AN OFFICIAL SITE OF ANY RECOGNIZED MASONIC BODY IN THE UNITED STATES OR ELSEWHERE. IT IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE VIEWS OR OPINION OF FREEMASONRY, NOR WEBMASTER NOR THOSE OF ANY OTHER REGULAR MASONIC BODY OTHER THAN THOSE STATED".

Happy reading and thanks for interest!

Can you tell me Tait1969, if the above link I posted is all nonsense ? I know the introduction containing the explanation isn't, just wondering about the 'Twelve Original Points in Freemasonry'. Thanks

Hi Granny - apologies but I wasn't saying it was nonsense! I was just pointing out that those that had written it had thought it important to put a disclaimer on!

I don't pretend to be a detailed historian but I will ask for you re the question you raise about the twelve original points!

In the meantime I'm sure we might have some others providing some clarity/ views!

Hi tait, your message box is full and I'm trying to message you.
Thanks

Hi Danjaylai, have removed some messages and should be ok now! Thanks for letting me know and look forward to hearing from you.

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Thanks for all of your interest to date.

I understand that the origins of the secrecy come from medieval times when skilled craftsmen held dear the secrets of their skills/methods as a form of protectionism -forming guilds of craftsmen etc - these were the men who frequently wore leather aprons to perform their trade.

What is not clear, is why does the society need to be so secret now? Its been clear in the papers for a long time that middle classes have been shunning the masons because of the eccentricity of dressing up in aprons etc and the seemingly outrageous demand that you accept that if you divulge the secret vows, you will be open to bodily harm from other masons .(Please do make a point of denying that bit if you can put your hand on your heart and say its not true by the way,its only what Ive heard)

What good deeds /charitable works could you NOT perform now as a society , if you abandoned all the secret parts of the ceremonies?

In my personal experience , freemasons like to make themselves known to each other(as they have a sworn duty to support each other), but are far less keen to be known to 'outsiders'. Why not ?- wouldnt it be a fine thing to be proud of the good works? Mind you that would make it harder for Freemasons to support other Freemason in all other areas of life including the work place I suppose . After all, if a suitable candidate was overlooked in favour of a lesser one who happened to be a freemason , if everyone could identify half the panel as Freemasons , it would be awkwardly suspicious I suppose . (Not that Im saying that Freemasons would dream of partaking in any form of Nepotism -God forbid! )

Powerful secrecy is rarely a good thing. It can lead to people protecting others in totally unacceptable circumstances such as we have seen happen in the church and cults .

However I do acknowledge the good work masons do for charity , and the way they look after their own members after bereavements etc. Ive seen that bit in action, and its admirable. Id just like to see it done without the cloak and dagger stuff.

Freemasons promise to support other freemasons -- how far does that go then ?

Hi Venice - quite a post and not sure I will be able to cover everything!

Anyway here goes! You mention Aprons - yes it's widely known that masons wear aprons but they are simply part of the history and quite smart to wear actually! That said I wouldn't want people to read apron and build the wrong picture! It's all very professional and for those in masonry they know what these aprons signify!

You mention secrecy and ask why we need to be so secret now? The fact is we are openly sharing a lot of what we do ( I am in this post) for the good of society! As has been said before we are not a secret society but a society with some secrets! These secrets are part of the history and tradition and we reserve those for people who decide to join masonry - that's it! They are nothing evil or bad but simply tradition and valued!

So what if we decided to drop the Masonic bit and focus only on charity? Well, of course that would never happen but let's think for a minute. Charity and donations come from people. The more people the more donations and the more the needy and good causes benefit! The fact that masonry has a solid foundation both in terms of its history and its members (numbers) it is ideally suited to charity hence the vast amounts masons give to charity year on year. Strangely enough this isn't something we often talk about as masons simply need to know that hey are doing this and praise/recognition is not something we seek.

When we consider the 'looking after each other element' again this is something non masons often interpret in the wrong way! You mention some of the stuff we do in relation to this, bereavements etc and this is well known and something I would point to rather than some of the innacurcies often banded about! Brotherly love, relief and truth is not something we reserve for masons alone rather we use this as the basis of treating everyone the same including family, friends and anyone we aquintences!

Ever needed to take your child to hospital? For some children admitted to hopsital the visit is sometimes accompanied by the presentation of a teddy bear. Whilst this is just a small gesture its something that is hopeful of trying to take a child's mind off what is often a daunting experience!

Did you know that these teddy bears are provided by the TLC charity/appeal? Did you also know that the TLC appeal is not only supported by Masons but was created after an idea from one of its members.

Please feel free to check out the history and good work carried out by the TLC appeal which includes donations to some hospitals on the Wirral.

http://www.tlcappeal.org/history/

I was a member of Woodside Lodge for quite a number of years and one of the best nights was "Ladies Evening". Gorgeous Ladies everywhere, dressed to the Nines.Dancing,eating and drinking.I used to have to drag the Wife out.Happy Memories, lots of good friends.Unfortunately, I developed Cancer two years ago and was told by my Oncologist three weeks ago it's Terminal,luck of the draw I suppose.Anyway, if any of you fancy joining, go ahead, you wont regret it.Best Regards, Phil.

Sorry youve had such sad news tankrat.Your memories of your time with the masons sound very happy indeed .Even terminal cancer seems to give more time to sufferers than it used to with all the modern medicines available, so here's hoping you are able to spend some more quality time with friends and family to make whatever span allotted to you, the best it can be.

Yes Phil I had a wonderful time when I went to one of these ladies nights. Evening dress all dolled up I felt great. I was a few years ago but loved it, very much treated like a lady. I would also like to echo Venice and wish you the best Phil.