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I suppose most ordinary members are in it with the intention of good deeds and enjoying themselves, but in any movement/society there is an elite with a possible hidden agenda who need them as foot soldiers.
Are your leaders chosen by an all member vote or a committee.
How do you get to be a GrandMaster? or whatever?

Personally I'm all for a world encompassing power that could sort out some of the problems we have nowadays so long as it isn't for personal gain in any way.

The United Nations appear to be fairly toothless about sorting some of these problems out

Tait: you said early in the thread "It's a common misconception regarding masons helping each other in business". This I simply don't believe. My own experience when a potential client asked whether I was "on the square" indicates to me that he wished to give that job to a Mason.
There are also documented cases when an accused in a court was seen to be giving a Masonic sign in the hope of obtaining leniency from a judge whom he knew to be a Mason: (there is no suggestion that the judge helped him).
I can see little to object to in the basic orders of Masonry; up to Master Mason, but I do worry about the higher orders.
It's well known that the Masonic order is well represented among the police and the judiciary: that does bother me a bit.

I joined 12+ years ago and can honestly say I have never looked back. I've been through the chair and get involved in another side degree meeting different people and having a good laugh.
When I joined a guy described it as "Big Boys Bingo" and it sticks with me.
I was in the Scout Association and played Rugby with the same group of mates that I'm in Lodge with - and I get the same 'crac' as I have done with the other clubs... In fact in some ways they are very similar in the set-up and running!
My wife gives me a "pass-out" and I enjoy the masonic bit and then some good food and plenty of beer and laughs afterwards!!
But its not for everyone - something you either want to do, or you are not interested.
I have friends who I know would never be interested or have any desire to join and I have top respect for that! Of course should they ever change their mind then they know where I am
The "secrets" give it the edge - something to learn along the journey - its what I want to do, its my hobby.. like watching football every night in front of the TV but again personal choices.

...and this morning ,another to add to the list . Sir. Rifkind

http://fallingmasonry.info/masonic-public.html

under the 'Introduction' heading

For most of us, charity means giving help to those in need - regardless of age, beliefs, disability, gender, pregnancy, race or sexual orientation - but studying the Freemason organization, charity for them seems to mean manipulating Gift Aid and the favourable tax treatment afforded to charities, so that they can give more to themselves and their friends. To illustrate this, if you visit the United Grand Lodge of England website, you can click on the "Charitable Work" link, and discover that Freemasons channel their charitable efforts through four charities. Then, if you check the eligibility requirements for each of those supposed charities, you will see that they all restrict their help to Freemasons, former Freemasons and close dependents of Freemasons. Therefore, if you give money to one of the Masonic Charities, you might believe that you are supporting worthy local causes, but in fact all you are likely doing is making a payment into some Freemason's Healthcare scheme, Insurance policy or Pension pot, etc. Indeed, the Taxman recently agreed with us, when Judge Charles Hellier ruled that the Freemason governing body was not sufficiently "philanthropic" to be exempt from VAT. Noting that only between 25 and 30 percent of the Grand Lodge's charity donation go to causes with no Masonic connections, - See more at: http://fallingmasonry.info/index.html#sthash.z6bDz2wq.dpuf

http://www.ugle.org.uk/charity


My opinion is the unsuspecting minions have been lead to believe they are the fund raisers (the unpaid workers) for good causes, when it's quite a different set up.

granny, like anyone you are entitled to your opinion but I'm afraid to say your wrong on a lot of counts. We certainly do not give more to ourselves and friends!

I suggest you start to look at the millions handed to good causes and not simply focus on what can be made to look bad! Again, anyone involved in freemasonry knows what money goes where with most going to charity. This is a fact!

I'm not sure what your objective is here but suffice it to say your opinions and views are coming across very negative with respect to freemasonry! As you are not a Freemason you would never know exactly how it works and the truth of it all. In this sense it will always be guess work I'm afraid.

Hi Granny,
You are probably right in a sense ... Masons do look after their own - and why not? I put in, so if I needed help in later years or my family did then I would have an organisation to look after me. Let's be honest the state is never going to give the likes of us a second look if we really needed help.

However your link isn't correct, or at least from what I personally believe it isn't correct.
If you kindly see https://www.grandcharity.org/pages/grants_to_chari-disaster_relief-373.html
Since 1981, over £2.4 million has been given to help the victims of floods, earthquakes, famines and other terrible events worldwide.

I don't think everyone that received aid (and not including the excellent Teddy Bears - TLC!) is a mason or knows of, or even cares as long as they get the aid.

I'm told the UK's second biggest charity is Masonic charity - first being National Lottery ... This is what I believe.
National Lottery doesn't help me - only if its "Art" or some waste of money to a certain group that won't benefit most of us... (but that's a different discussion!)

So I don't apologise for belonging to an organisation that looks after it's own if (God help me) I needed it but also does 'some' good to anyone else when they need help the most.

We don't do any harm or mean harm to anyone.. Just like Rotary, Young Lions etc., or even a group of people who want to go for a beer every now and then!

Of course maybe there are people who join Masonary to gain or think they have special rights or powers .. but a prat or whatever stronger you call them, will be a prat of regardless of whatever they join or do with their life!! And I would never be part of a society that promoted that - I can assure you that.

If its good enough for Billy Butlin, Tommy Cooper and my ex grandfather in law its good enough for me. The website linked to also has major flaws, its states "which over half the human race is completely denied access to, since women, Atheists and people with disabilities are banned from joining." - See more at: http://fallingmasonry.info/heresy.html#.dpuf
Yet it list the names of women members, I am a disabled atheist and have honoured to be asked to join lodges in both Shropshire and locally. I declined both for personal reasons. I have also seen some of the good works done. Wherever there is secrecy there will always be those that call foul play. Keep up the good work Masons.

As neither of you were prepared to answer DerekDWC question nor Chriskays question, I wonder why you both home in on my opinion. (response to a feeble woman or a macho male dominance ?)

Yes, I am entitled to my opinion, the same as others are allowed to have their opinion against other groups, and my opinion is that The Freemasons is classed as a charity for the benefit of the hierarchy, their own members and associates. Under the banner of 'charity' it is able to avoid tax. As Camelot raises approx. £33million each week, one has to wonder how much the Masonic charities raise each week, being the largest UK charity !
The National Lottery, as it happens, is now owned by the Canadian Teachers Pension Fund (obviously a government body).So your beliefs are also wrong. The Masonic charity must be the largest charity in the UK.

This was the TAX MAN'S opinion, not mine
Taxman recently agreed with us, when Judge Charles Hellier ruled that the Freemason governing body was not sufficiently "philanthropic" to be exempt from VAT. Noting that only between 25 and 30 percent of the Grand Lodge's charity donation go to causes with no Masonic connections,

Bravo !Freemasons provide £2m to the Asian Tsunami of 2004. vai their own accounts and gaining interest.

Direct appeal to the public made it look pathetic


The British public responded with amazing generosity to the worst natural disaster in living memory, donating £400 million to the Disasters and Emergency Committee (DEC) appeal. As a member of the DEC, we received £37 million from the appeal, as well as raising more than £10 million from our own website and individual church appeals.

It has to be said that I have no qualms against either of you, as I believe you are in for the good of involvement, but you cannot deny that the Freemasons is a very, very powerful organisation. It has branches based in just about every country,involves itself in just about every government, (apart from various Muslim Countries that have banned them, due to having too much connection with Zionism)and every possible bank, business, industry, exploration, scientific research, etc.et.etc in this world. I believe them to have manipulative powers,and connections to indiscriminate tendencies.
There is one point which baffles me. Your comment

"National Lottery doesn't help me - only if its "Art" or some waste of money to a certain group that won't benefit most of us... (but that's a different discussion!)

So I don't apologise for belonging to an organisation that looks after it's own if (God help me) I needed it but also does 'some' good to anyone else when they need help the most."

.....which surely takes away the whole generous gift of giving, and leads to a simple phrase of 'feathering ones own nest'. Only if there is something in it for you, is what you say. Appalling attitude and if everyone could pay £2 a week into a charity box instead of into the National Lottery with hope of being winners and something in it for them, they wouldn't do it.

Tait, You say we don't know, but your first post was to explain that you were there to answer any questions.
Answer this. What is the connection to the Hindu Goddess ISIS and the Freemason ?

By the way, I must agree that I am not a Freemason, but have to admit that many of my family, past and present have been and still are. It doesn't make me like a secret organisation any better. Why doesn't it come under the FOI act ?

i.e. 2 questions.

There is very clear evidence that many leaders of commerce and public offices are Freemasons. Personally in the case of one of my earliest employers it was well known that unless you belonged you would not get on.This changed over the years as they had to get more professional or disappear. My ex next door neighbour was Grand Master of the local lodge and asked me to join on the grounds that if anything happened to me then my wife would want for nothing and I need never worry about unemployment.I declined as I did not like the idea of the secrecy. I have no doubt that Masons do give lots of money to charity although they do seem very specific about the recipients.

In 2012,the three (main?) Masonic charities were nowhere near the top of the charity league tables, one was about 280th and the others behind that, combining the three charities gets to about 100th position.

Source

Lol..Granny just a feeble woman?? I think not, I love your ability for confrontational debate. Keep it up..even if I don't agree with all you say.

Geemeister; I suppose one has to reply, or you may have a 'hissy' fit.

Not agreeing,just makes it all the better to challenge
.

Lol...spitting my dummy out now.

There is alot of similarities with freemasonary and mormonism. The special underwear that mormon missionaries wear has the masonic square and compass stitched into them.The mormon temple rituals are also similar. Some of the Christian churches state that being a freemason and a christian are not compatible. Now they dont say that about being a member of the local golf club.The criticisms are not at the individual mason but at the secret rituals. I personally wouldnt want to join any group that had secrets that i wouldnt find out about till i had become initiated. Thats a little too occultic for me.

What secrets???? Anyone joining Freemasonary to learn "secrets" is going to be sadly disappointed - also if they think they will get treated favourable by others in high office then they will also very be sadly disappointed; Freemasonary is 100% not for them.
If anyone is really desperate to learn anything then 'google is your friend'.. but honestly like newspapers don't believe everything you read So feel free to ask if there is no secrets or "benefits" then what is the point?? For me it is a hobby and like all hobbies costs me a bit of money.
If you expectation is "Big Boys Bingo" then Freemasonary is also worth considering.. But not for everyone - like watching Football is not for everyone!!
Freemasonary is a progressive science.. I learn history as I go.
It is like when I did my degree at Liverpool Uni... I didn't actually learn everything until I completed the degree and not when or before I started.