Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past History Information Request Woodchurch 'Stone'

What evidence is there of Neolithic settlement? Do a few flint scatters represent evidence of actual settlement??

Your ideas are all perfectly harmless, and let's face it we already have Viking re-enactments in Arrowe Park, but it will be positively cringe-worthy to think modern day druids may start turning up there to worship at gateposts.

Might I suggest that if you need any help with proving your ideas you should contact Peter France.

Just adding another bit Yin Yang. Can guess what you think but Erainn might like it.


http://www.charlesclosesociety.org/files/Issue95page47.pdf

Here's what I think granny...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acx4KYBS12c

(you might want to skip the ad)

...admittedly, Spinal Tap probably know a lot more than I do about stone circles and the 'megalithic strictures' to which Erainn refers, but I'm not convinced in the slightest there is evidence for them on Wirral.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6e/9b/5d/6e9b5da04213025b4ff6ab9451136640.jpg

Well now, Yin Yang. I was there about 1970. Did a little dance and gave the stones a jolly good rub.

It is they which filled me with my magical powers. Didn't need to phone the 666 number.

That's very interesting, gran. I never realised that by phoning the Australian Police Force one could acquire such wonderous powers!

I really think that you and Erainn should team up together. What with your special gift and Erainn's dogged determination I'm sure the two of you could soon get to the bottom of the Woodchurch 'Stone' mystery. You could be like Wirral's very own Time Team...

Haven't you been keeping an eye on all the digging going on around the Landican/Thingwall area, what with the new power cable they've been putting in place? Maybe they've found traces of the ancient history of your area.

They could have found traces of all sorts of things. Dead Vikings included.
Have you seen the route they have taken ? Through fields crossing Storeton Road, Brimstage Road, A540 to Neston and onwards ?

http://www.awjmarine.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Western-Link-News-2012.pdf

Will they dismantle the ugly overhead pylons that are suggested to cause cancer, and then leave us with the 'high voltage' underground cables, that are suggested to cause cancer ?
We should all be doing the jitterbug around here, when they switch it on

Bring back the Vikings I say, with their barbeques, log burners and chimeneas.

...the only archaeology they seem worried about is in the area around Puddington. No mention of your area. But yes, the power cable is a concern for more reasons than one. It will certainly play havoc with your "vibes" gran and, as for the Barnston Fiddler you've been researching, I believe his next performance is going to be electric!

I can only assume that, although the power cable runs directly through Wirral, nothing of any significance has been found (or at least reported). The trench they've been digging is certainly big enough, you'd think they would find something. You only have to look at how much earth they shifted building their compound at Landican, and all seemingly without regard for stone circles, or your beloved Vikings.

Here's a link with more detailed maps and updated information concerning the cable project and it's impact on the area in question...


http://www.westernhvdclink.co.uk/doc-wirral-cable.aspx

Thank you.

I am not sure that using fallacious arguments, such as 'appealing to ridicule' is either a mature or courteous attitude, and seems very out-of-place here. Especially when people are usually tolerant of and welcome a diversity of views. Let us recall also that what has been presented on this subject has been very firmly within the arena of speculation. Legitimate questions have been asked regarding stones marked on 19th Century maps, their origin and function is a matter of discussion. I am happy to respect any and all views on the subject, however I shall not waste time responding to posts that are off-topic or barely disguised efforts to 'Troll'.

Granny, I am aware of and have referenced that article previously, thanks though for kindly suggesting it.

I think you will find none of the posts are off topic. The moderator would step in if they were. People questioning your comments or disagreeing with you is certainly not trolling. It seems, as usual, that you are only happy if people support your ideas.

I also think you will find I have tried to give some useful pointers and made suggestions for you to follow up. But if you wish to take offence...

Yin Yang,

References to 'Modern day Druids, and videos of Spinal Tap' hardly constitutes reasonable or salient contributions, such offerings are indeed fallacious, in that they are seeking to ridicule a topic. On that basis I think it is entirely sensible to state that I am uninterested in addressing such nonsense, which is in nature seeking to 'troll' or deflect attention.

Now let us return to the matter-in-hand. Firstly, I did not begin this discussion to prove the correctness or validity that such stones were without doubt evidence of Neolithic structures, or that those marked on old maps were definitive proof of alignment. Anyone caring to read my posts in a detached and careful manner will clearly note that I discuss the subject very much within a speculative context, I am asking questions, considering various interpretations, including more prosaic function such as gateposts or boundary markers. I have maintained a position of being open-minded, allowing for the purpose of discussion, the intriguing possibility that maybe such structures reveal an alignment and wondered if they were constructed or sited for an astronomical purpose. That is entirely reasonable, as much so as claiming that such stones could only have been linked to field markers and later farming.

We are limited to questioning, as the majority of stones recorded on 19th century maps no longer exist, archaeo-astronomy, which is a valid academic discipline can (and has on many cases) enable us to establish if a site is connected with a celestial event. As I have mentioned there appear to be alignments of stones marked on such maps which are suggesting a link to the sunrise at Summer Solstice. Now this may or may not be the case, I am simply reporting the results of calculations based on the data of those sites, surrounding topography and astronomic information. People can make up their own minds, some could do their own fieldwork on site to establish more clearly if such associations are entirely credible.

It may be difficult for you to concede but the reality is that there is no 'right' or 'wrong' in this matter and I for one have not sought to prove anything. I am certainly not interested in convincing you of one particular view or another. The questions raised are in themselves valid, it is a matter of recorded fact that many megalithic structures have been shown to be aligned to astronomic events. It is highly likely that the Wirral was once populated by Neolithic peoples, who no doubt were fascinated by the movements of the Sun, Moon and stars. There is a possibility that like others during that period they erected structures to mark and/honor celestial events. The geology of the Wirral provided a significant supply of sandstone, a suitable material for standing stones.

Now such facts in themselves do not form conclusive proof that the aforementioned stones were megalithic items, what they do however is to inform questions and attract a curiosity, could such structures have been linked to ancient astronomy? Were they aligned? Had they been sited to mark the Summer Solstice? Simply questions, not affirmations of fact!

It is you who has chosen 'assertion', rather than speculation and in so doing have demonstrated to readers an emphatic refusal to entertain any function beyond gate-posts or boundary markers. Such is your right of course and I respect that however that attitude places you in an interesting position. Namely that as someone who, when presented with speculation, responded by denying such as credible the burden of proof rests firmly upon your shoulders. The problem is that you cannot offer such evidence to establish beyond doubt the proof of your critical claims. As I have made clear previously we are in an arena of questions regarding this topic, it may well be that every single stone marked on old maps was linked to gates or field margins. Equally it can be stated that some of these stones had a more ancient and astronomic function, I am open to any and all options. That said I feel it no longer productive to exchange further with you on the subject, I am aware of your position, and to avoid repetition and charges of boredom I think it best to draw a line under our exchanges.

Blimey Erainn, all I did was ask you what evidence there was for Neolithic settlement.

If you can't give an answer in support of your own assertions then I guess you don't have any evidence. No need to stamp your feet and run off home with your ball, or try and deflect from answering a direct question by throwing a paddy...

I have made direct reference to some of the latest published assessments of the history and archaeology of the Wirral area by professionals, and provided links to some of these (including the on-going utilities work), none of which give any credence to stone circles or standing stones locally. Your arguement that 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' proves nothing.

So just answer the question (if you can). Bearing in mind the relatively small size of Wirral, what evidence is there for an established (and well organised) neolithic community in Wirral, of sufficient size and resources who would have been capable of constructing stone circles?