Forums Forums Local News Mr Jollies Circus

My opposition to caged and captive animals is based purely on, they are not being allowed to live their lives as intended for the species, as nature intended. Regulations and conditions shouldn't come into it, they shouldn't be locked up in the first place. If they are being looked after properly under captive conditions doesn't compensate taking away their freedom to roam, live in their natural habitat. Taken away by mans greed, to profit from.

Dancing bears and cock fighting causes distress and injury to the animal though, circuses meeting regulation in England don't. A great example of what I said earlier about using a slight truth out of context and manipulated to meet the agenda.

So a vet isn't highly educated to recognise if an animal is suffering, in ill health or if their living conditions are suitable for giving them an acceptable standard of living?

Personally Waddi, educated or not I am quite sure these vets would not accept that continued exploitation of caged animals is right.
If these animals are being fed etc. it's a better option to give them the tick in the box, rather than being euthanized, but from the vets I have known, they would be a lot happier to see the practice banned altogether and no further creatures being subjected to many years of imprisonment like circuses do!

My opinion is that the government with assistance from experts in the field, set standards and regulations, and if those standards are met then the circus, the zoo, the private keeping of animals in the DWA list should be allowed.

Another point proven, agressive words from those that protest.

The Government with assistance from experts bombed the life out of Iraq a few years ago !! SO DON'T quote government to me and how their findings are paramount and unquestionably, correct!

http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/wildlife/captivity/circuses

We’re campaigning against the use of wild animals in circuses and lobbying the Westminster and Welsh governments to ban their use in England and Wales , as other countries have already done.


We don't believe animals should be subjected to the conditions of circus life. Regular transport, cramped and bare temporary housing, forced training and performance, loud noises and crowds of people are often unavoidable realities for the animals.


Scientific research has shown that travelling circus life is likely to have a harmful effect on animal welfare [1].



SO who do we believe ?

Interesting. So you don't agree with bullying and believe that people should be able to make up their own minds, Yet you continue to post your opinion, and then use so called "Examples" without actual references to back up your posts. So who do we believe indeed? Do I believe scientific research into the wellbeing of animals bred into capitivity (the Government and Science in general are a conspiracy) or do I believe your views which you seem to share with the RSPCA (Who unfortunately I also think breed their own conspiracies)?

Regardless of what I choose to or not to believe, I still stand by the fact that you hate bullying, but seem to be supporting the bullying performed by the protesters. All I have seen in this thread so far is blatant Hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy - Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another.

Which also links to my original comment about the decibel levels. Simply saying "Its ok for us to initiate horn beeping to support our cause, even though potentially causing distress to the animals" just isn't good enough. That makes you as bad as the supposed "Bad Bad Circus Men".

"They have probably been well and truly deaf from a young age. " Could I see the proof/evidence please?

What examples are you looking for Kreki ? Do we need an example for the mistakes made in Iraq?
I gave the link for the rspca,, what other? Maybe this is what you require:

http://www.cepf.net/Documents/Arc_Journal_23.pdf
Photo by John Watkin
the arc journal Issue 23
3
he and Katherine then
learned that children in sanje village were indeed keeping a pet mangabey. although the children had trimmed its long fringe it was clear that this was an undocumented species – one that is endemic to the udzungwa Mountains. It became known as the sanje mangabey. asked by the British Museum of natural history to shoot and kill one as a type specimen, alan declined, and the captive mangabey lived out its days at Von nagy’s wildlife sanctuary in arusha.

Oh, and by the way, the word 'Hypocrisy' is of Greek origin, and animals have not yet understood the meaning of the word. Neither have they understood the meaning behind being locked in cages and forced to perform, like they were in Roman times.
So whatever you wish to accuse supporters of, still doesn't help the animals.
Other than that, I don't know what on earth you are rambling on about, or for what purpose.

Waddi, you seem to know all about this circus and you state that it more than meets legislative standards.
I would be genuinely interested if you could give us a breakdown of how a typical big cat at this circus , would spend a typical 24hrs ? What size is the accommodation cage , number of hours it would occupy it, number of hours it would be 'training' , hours performing etc etc.

My partner and kids went to the circus and had a great time. The staff did a 5 minute speech at the beginning pointing out the protesters have been invited into the circus grounds to see how and where the animals live and also where invited to the show for free, to see for themselves - they all refused.

I suppose going by previous comments I should let my fish be free and live a wild life in the rivers of the world.
My rabbits should also be set free along with my hens and my dog.

Anyone got anything better to moan about because this is just pathetic. Yes you hear bad stories in the press about how some circus animals are kept but that is because they are extreme stories. When do you ever hear on the news that a particular circus treats animals as they should in line with the law and regulations - never.
This particular circus gets 4 inspections every year, 2 announced and 2 unannounced and have passed every time.

Alas some people like to have every ones share of the "15 minutes of fame". Once they see themselves in the paper... cant live without it. We should all protest against the protesters.

Absolute rubbish. The staff are liars.

One last month actually regarding Jollys.

How is the Iraq war relevant to this discussion? Unless of course you are referring to the earlier point raised by someone, that the Circus is a barbaric venture that belongs in the Victorian age? In that case, then the only connection I can see between this and Iraq is that Religion was the main driving factor behind the war (Infadels, difference in opinion etc etc) and that is even older than Victorian Principles. So following that logic, shouldnt we all go and protest outside churches to the religious chapter? Ban all Religion?

Yes, I am aware of the origins of the term hypocrisy. I struggle to understand what you were rambling on about yourself in that paragraph however. Unless of course you are merely stating that the animals "In need of rescue" cannot even remotely differentiate between their "Owners" or "Rescuers"? Which I probably agree with. But I also believe that an animal faced with its owner who provides them with healthcare, food, water and shelter etc, would prefer that to the crowd of noisy protesters fighting for their so called rights! Has anybody actually gone in and asked the animals what life they would prefer? Or is this just another case of people trying to become deities and force their opinions on others........

This is not in response to your post Kreki, I find nothing to respond to, in that, but can I ask if your real name is Harmony?



A recent article quotes a spokesperson for Jolly's saying:

"Defra also does stress tests and assesses the animal's physical and mental health. Our animals are absolutely fine.

As we know DEFRA is the governmental authority, and the experts, who have the facts, both scientific and research based, and if they grant a licenses then apparently, we should not argue.

The same article is followed with a statement from a spokesman for DEFRA ;

A spokesman for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said it still intends to ban wild animals in circuses.

He said: “We are committed to banning the use of wild animals in circuses and will introduce legislation as soon as parliamentary time allows.


“As we work towards a ban we have a strict system in place to ensure the welfare of all 23 circus animals in England – this includes announced and unannounced inspections, care plans for every animal, regular veterinary inspections and a retirement plan for each animal.”


http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/486002/Shock-video-Tigers-caged-pacing-in-cells-in-UK-circus

It would therefore appear that DEFRA are determined to have wild animals banned from circuses and those who are not in support of the ban have to ask themselves why the 'experts'" are.